Potomotyphlus kaupii

[pollywog]

A photograph of one of Tony's Caecilians.
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24792/28102.jpg

[anthony]

thank you Andrew

[pollywog]

And another:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24792/28109.jpg

[anthony]

thanks again andrew.

[pollywog]

And another:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24792/28118.jpg

[paris]

these are an aquatic caecilian?

[edward]

Hi Paris,
Yes this an aquatic species.

Ed

[mark]

Very interesting to see that this species has appeared in the UK. Tony - do these animals show up with frequency? Also, how many P kaupii do you possess? I must say, I am quite jealous of you, if only this species would show up in the U.S...

[anthony]

Hi Mark
i have 2 at the moment you don't get many caecilians in the uk.

[mark]

Well, I must say I am truly jealous of you. I didn't think many Gymnophiona species were offered across the pond. I guess it is some pretty good luck though that you get such a rare and beautiful species. I wish you the best of luck with them.

Mark

[ben]

I picked up a couple of these about 4 weeks ago probably from the same batch as anthony's. It's taken til now for them to settle in and start feeding properly but here's a couple of pics anyway.
Ben
.http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24792/29373.jpg

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24792/29374.jpg

[mark]

Great pics Ben! I must say, all these Potomotyphlus appearing in Britain (along with our current president) make me feel like defecting. It seems like you've got them in a really nice set up, got any pics of that as well?

Once again, nice pics - truly impressive animals.

Mark

[paris]

where do these guys originate from?

[anthony]

Ben sent you a private message.
Thanks Tony.

[ben]

Mark glad you liked the pics i'll post some of their feeding frenzy later on, the viv/aquarium is pretty standard, 900mm x 400mm x 400mm glass aquarium with 30mm of silica sand and a good depth of beech leaves and two bits of bogwood with java fern(Microsaurium sp) growing on them nothing to look at but good for photo's
Ben

[ben]

i know these pics may cause disdain and hatred for me but there is an explanation! After a month of life on their own i've moved my P.kaupii in with my Typhlonectes natans. The kaupii have not really been feeding that well and although still looking healthy certainly aren't as keen as the natans, however within two days of the move they are changed beasts and putting the weight back. anyway for comparison here's a feeding pic
!http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24792/29622.jpg

[alan]

Here's a question for you Caecilian experts: water chemistry?
They need soft-ish, acid water, right?
This has always put me off trying to acquire any here (hard water area).

[paris]

good luck, alan, they still havent gotten back to me on where they originate from....

[ben]

Paris sorry new i'd forgot something, The P.kaupii were brought in from Peru, but information is sketchy, Ed K told me that they aren't actually listed from peru! So in short i don't really know!

[ben]

oh it's going to be one of those days, alan my Caecilians are in soft water at a pH of around 6.5 depending on how recent my water changes have been. I'm changing about 30% each week and siphoning any uneaten food off daily then topping up!
ben

[alan]

Thanks Ben. Soft water is hard to come by in these parts (pun intended) http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/happy.gif

[ben]

Know what you mean i'm using RO water filtered through a softening resin, the beech leaves do the rest.

[ben]

Paris, had a quick search for info and herpetologist Bill Lamar has them on his list of amphibs in the Loreto region of peru and since the wholesaler was also selling wild type Loreto tetras from the same shipment it seems to point to Loreto Peru. As a side topic the Rio loreto is known as a brown river due to it's murky nature so particularly suited to Caecilians!

[edward]

Hmm, I need to get that reference by Lamar as the info I have doesn't list them from Peru (or even that close).
Well, being known as a brown river doesn't help as the water could be discolored due to sediment suspension (which is known from several of the rivers in the Amazon Basin) as opposed to black water (tannin) darkened streams.
If I rememeber correctly Potomotyphlops kauperi and T. natans are found sympatrically in a couple of river systems.
The pH doesn't have to be that low (even T. natans for example is known to come from stream systems that drop to a pH of below 5 in the dry system) as a pH of around 6.5 works well.

Alan, if you have access to a RO or distilled water system they are pretty easy to keep. (In a pinch you can even use the peat systems used for discus to soften and acidify the water).

Ed

[ben]

Ed heres the web page i found the Bill Lamar checklist (http://www.greentracks.com/AmphList.html) not conclusive but a possibility, also i took a visit to the wholesalers and spoke the the fish house guy who told me they came in labelled as a species of cichlid and the shipper thinks they must have got boxes mixed up! anyways i've sent an email to the OFI(Ornamental fish international)to explain the unlawful trade in caecilians by some of their members, as yet no reply.
Ben

[edward]

Hi Ben,
Thanks for the link. I will check it out. It is possible that the caecilians are coming in as a undescribed "eel". This is how T. natans was imported and is still occasionally imported illegally into the USA. As not all shipments are inspected, there are still some animals coming into the states.

Ed

(Message edited by Ed on January 23, 2005)

[edward]

Hi Ben,
Did you see that the checklist is for a 500 km radius from Iquitos?
Glancing at an Atlas puts the outer edge of that pretty far into Brazil maybe I should e-mail and ask for localities.....

Ed

[greg]

Frost's Amphibian Species of the World has them listed as being in the Orinoco River drainage system, but doesn't specifically list countries.

http://research.amnh.org/herpetology/amphibia/references.php?id=24608

[paris]

..so,fully aquatic like the t natans...so live bearers too?

[mark]

Yes, Potomotyphlus (along with all other members of the Caecilidae) are livebearing, most caecilians are in fact. Only a few Asian genera, such as Ichthyophis, are oviparous.

[edward]

Except that Caecilia orientalis (Ecuador) is an egg layer.
See Funk, W. Chris; Fletcher-Lazo, George; Nogales-Sornosa, Fernando; Ameida-Reinoso, Diego; 2004; First description of a clutch and nest site for the genus Caecilia (Gymnophiona: Caeciliidae); Herpetological Review 35(2): 128-130.

In general, within the genus Caecilia, it looks as if there are both oviparous as well as viviparous animals so I personally do not believe that oviparity is mainly restricted to some of the Asian genera.

Ed

[mark]

Thanks for the correction, Ed. I was unaware of any oviparous caecilians outside of the Ichthyophidae. I'll have to check out that article.