Outdoor Ambystomid enclosure

[mike_g]

Well...I've decided to try my luck at keeping some ambystomids of mine outdoors. The enclosure is 4'x2'x2'. It will be totally enclosed when completed, and have a double layer of screening. The first layer of screen is usual fiberglass window screen. The second layer is either going to be some chicken wire or thick plastic fencing to enforce the window screen. I am going to be digging a hole into the ground to bury most of the enclosure, which is why it is 2' tall (at least 12-14" of the enclosure will be underground to allow for burrowing. All in all, the enclosure has cost me 16.57 so far and took about 2-3 hours to construct. I will need to buy another piece of wood to construct the lid, a pair of hinges, a lock, and rummage up some more screening for the top and bottom of the enclosure. Hope you like it.
~Mike

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7618/18542.jpg
The raw materials...

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7618/18543.jpg
The frame

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7618/18544.jpg
The initial layer of screen

More to come tomorrow all...Just thought I'd share whats going on right now.
Take care,
~Mike

[jennifer]

Looks interesting. Is the bottom screened or open?

[TJ]

Keep 'em coming, Mike!

[mike_g]

Thanks Jen and Tim-
Its not finished yet, but the bottom will be screened with the same window screen to make it fully-escape proof. I still need to buy another piece of lumber and some hinges/lock to complete the lid. Once the whole thing is done, I am going to put an extra layer of thicker and stronger wire/screen over the window screen to prevent any predators from tearing it open. After that, I need to dig a 4 foot by 2 foot by at least a 1 foot deep hole to sink this project in to. It will be 100% enclosed though once completed..hopefully that will happen this week-I haven't been home any since Saturday.
~Mike

[joeri]

good luck Michael
don't forget to take more pictures http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/happy.gif

[mike_g]

Alrighty guys..here's the finished product..its both predator and escape proof. I have a double layer of screen-the first layer being window screen, the second layer being tough plastic fencing to deter predators. It has a hinged lid that is also double screened and overlaps by about an inch so that any adventurous salamanders will have yet another barrier to cross, and the bottom of the enclosure is some extra pvc pond liner that I had laying around. All in all, it cost me around 20.50 or so-granted I had the thick plastic fencing laying around my garage. The only thing I am going to add is a lock to make sure raccoons can't pry open the lid. I just need to dig a big hole now to set this thing in. I'll update it once thats done...hopefully tomorrow night it will have animals in it.
~Mike

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7618/18783.jpg
Initial screen layer

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7618/18784.jpg
finished product

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7618/18785.jpg
another view

[jesse]

are you going to place a pool of water in that too mike incase youre sals try to breed?
oh yeah and what kind of animals are you looking to put in that?

[mike_g]

Hey Jesse-
Yup--I'm basically going to be setting half the enclosure (at least 12-14" of it) in a hole, so I'll have at least 12-14" of dirt for them to dig into. I'm going to put a pond in there as well in the unlikely (though hopeful) event that they could breed. Right now I'm planning on putting my juvie maculatum in there since they are the oldest of my animals, but I might put jeffersonianum in there in the future.
~Mike

[jesse]

mabey youll get some hybrids out of it if you leave the spottedds in there with the jeffersonium

[mike_g]

I still haven't put a whole lot of thought into breeding or what will be in there when...I'm going one step at a time...Right now I am just thinking about getting it set up.
~Mike

[mike_g]

Alrighty...I finally got it in the ground yesterday and put a few plants in. I haven't put my breeding pool in there yet(I am going out of town this week and don't have time right now), but here's the almost-completed product. I found an old bag of mulch that ended up being home to hundreds of worms, so I poured the bag of pulverized mulch (now really good soil) in there to "plant" the enclosure with worms. Hope you like it, I'm interested to hear comments.
~Mike

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7618/19625.jpg

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7618/19626.jpg

[jesse]

is that youre back yard? It looks relly nice. i think that you may get some other amphibs coming in there especially if you are going to put a breeding ool in there. Good touch with the adding of the worm infested soil. Overall i give it a 15 (on a scale of 1-10) i think whatever you put in ther is going to be very happy.

[al]

Hey Mike,
Nice enclosure.
What is your freezing zone (depth) where you are located? Is 12 inches going to be enough for over wintering? You may want to consider, in the fall, piling leaves around the enclosure to insulate from the harsh winter temps/conditions. You don't want to use chopped up debris that may indeed create a "cold frame" type effect that could warm up the enclosure with the effects of decomposition. The thing I struggle with outdoor enclosures is the size. You are not only battling the elements/weather (unpredictable), but you are still limited with the species being confined in a small space. Some folks think at first, enclosures that are outside would be easier to manage, but in fact they may need more attention than an indoor tank that is temperature/moisture controlled. Not only are you dealing with temperatures fluxuation, water runoffs during wet seasons or drying out during droughts will always be something to consider.
Mulling this over in my mind for the past several years, I've come to the conclusion that I would embark on this when I could setup instruments to measure temperatures and moisture levels above and below ground (have not got all of this worked out yet). This would allow me to keep an close eye on the conditions in order to make modifications.
Where I live now, I can dig a hole during the wet season and it will fill up with water at 8-12 inches. Thanks for keeping us posted; it helps out a lot seeing the progress of others with such a project.
Al

[nic]

Freaking RAD

[mike_g]

Al-
Generally, our freezing zone only extends about 4-6". Regardless I was planning on wrapping an old blanket around the sides of the enclosure and putting some pine boughs around it. Pine boughts are good for insulation and do not compact nearly as much as leaves. Leaves tend to compact too much over the course of the winter. The area I have them is shaded and the soil stays moist throughout the year. I am an avid gardener and know the soil around my house pretty well, and this seemed to be the best spot. It never gets soggy, and never gets bone dry.
An update on it-they've been in there for a week now and are doing just fine. I found all three of the maculatum last night underneath some debris that is in their. One of them has the beginnings of a burrow underneath one of the pieces of bark.
~Mike

[lucas]

what kind of screen is that? it looks really soft and stuff. And, forgive me, im a bit new, but how do you get a pool for breeding in there?

[devon]

Won't the wood rot, underground, when it gets wet?

[mike_g]

Wow..haven't checked this in a while..haha.

Lucas-yes, the screen is soft, which is why I have a heavy duty, thick plastic screen surrounding it to prevent any break-ins by predators.

Devon-eventually, yes. But that will take several years. I have other enclosures made of the same wood that have been in the ground 5 years that I have not needed to replace.

Unfortunately, my parents moved this fall, and I had to leave that enclosure behind, along with all the others...ugh
~Mike

[mark]

Do you still feed them, or do they eat wild grub? How would they stay warm?

[wyatt]

when did you put it in the ground, or javen't you yet? i would like to see how it is doing. i am also curious about if you feed them or not. it would be cool having a little mini-ecosystem in your yard.

[mike_g]

Guys...I moved...I don't live there anymore...no animals are therehttp://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/sad.gif
~Mike

[mark]

Well, you could still answer some questions. Just use past tense, right?