Social or antisocial

im just looking for peoples opinions on weather axies are social or not. in my opinion i think they are, H. used to just hide away all day in his cave untill i feed him, now that N. has been added hes changed a lot, he's more active and hangs outside the cave more, im not sure if this is just to show N. whos territory it is or not but i think hes just being social.

(Message edited by jennewt on December 18, 2005)

It depends on how you define social....

Ed

All of my Axolotls that I currently have in my big tank, which is 4, seem to all enjoy hanging at the end of the tank together. I rarely see them apart, and they seem to enjoy each others company. Once in a while one will stray from the group, but eventually all the others will follow it's really funny

Well in their natural habitat they all live together didn't they? I think it probably depends on the individual and how they've grown up.

They're not social in that they need to be together to be 'happy'. Usually, they'd just as soon eat conspecifics as 'hang out' with them. When two are in a tank together, they interact more, probably due to competition rather than 'friendliness'.

Yeah I imagine they have everthing they need to be a lone dweller but in the cases of defense usually animals hang out in large groups if they have no means of defense...I suppose axolotls have the protection of blending in and the fact they don't really have any social displays like colour changing or sounds...

Interesting topic.

Axolotls are not social and their only defense is to swim away. However, in their natural environment, they're the top predator, save humans, and do not need to have any defenses. They live in fishless waters and eat mainly invertebrates.

If they're so antisocial why did they only live in two lakes?

well probably because they were the only two lakes they could thrive in due to predator free waters?

Fishless waters? I have recently bought a book "Axolotls are amazing" if anyones read it, and under habitat section it states that the waters of Xochimilco and Chalco during summer are abundant with small fish, worms and insect larvae.

It also goes on to say that Axolotls in groups hunt for food spontaneously. I would say that this means that they are social creatures. I havn't seen my guys try to hunt anything, but there again they don't have to.

maybe small fish, but definatly not predators.

not sure about the hunting in a group part- id say your book has some false info... alot of books do. i once read a book telling people to house 9-10 oscars (babies) in a 3' tank... surely this wasnt intended as a non-permanent thing

The book was pretty much spot on with everything else though.

Even gave details about salt baths, medications, and even basic instructions on how to perform operations (including what anaesthetic to use). Weird hey?

But with everyones axies being captive bred i'm sure we'll never really find out the truth about weather axies hunt in groups or not. It's a cool though though. Imagine being set upon by a pack of hungry axies. lol

Okay, first off there are different degrees of sociality, these can range from animals that are solitary do not interact outside of territorial defense, resource defense and/or the breeding season, to animals that live in permanent mutually interactive groups to animals that can live in large groups that may or may not be related (E.O. Wilson does a good job of covering all of the variations in one of his books, I'll post the info on the book later today).
While some very social animals engage in cooperative hunting (dolphins, cetaceans, various canids, wolves, chimps, some ant species to name a few), spontaneous cooperative hunting is also seen in animals that are not very social when the conditions are right, some sharks, mata matas, (I have seen it in walking catfish), to name a couple off the top of my head.
The fact that axolotls can interact (otherwise they would not breed) does not mean that they are social in the sense that wolves, dolphins or primates are social. The observations listed above by some observers pointing out how the axolotls "hang" out together also does not mean that they are social in the same manner as a primate but that there may be resource guarding (such as mate or potential mate), niche preference (the microenviroment at that spot is the best in the enclosure) or other reason.

I would have to say that in the classical sense axolotls are not social.

Ed

I think it's amazing they were only found in two lakes. The study of an axolotls behaviour in the wild would be fascinating.

...So my guy is not in any way lonely hanging out all by himself? from day one, he follows me around the tank, and hangs out in the corner closest to where I am. he was not hand fed at the pet store, and actually not in a very highly trafficked area.Was in there with three others with
Lots of plants about a 20 gallon long.
,,,,Then why do I feel compelled to get another??? LOL

hahaha they are pretty curious, maybe they are following you in hope for a feed.

You should get another if you have the room they sound pretty interesting when they're placed together.

Ah.... as of now, I only have room for a 10 gallon tank, which on the Axolotl.Org site, says it is ok to have two in there.... BUT,,,the gang here say's NO!!
so,,, i am trying to figure out where I can put a 20 long, and if i can....

awww. I had a small tank but of course it's everyone's dream to own the biggest and bestest tank...well it's mine any way. I could just have the walls made of aquariums... :-|

I'm not sure if axolotls are attention seeking or if they like to have lots of interaction..alot of people keep their axolotls on their own with plants and hiding places around and they seem fine...

snip "hahaha they are pretty curious, maybe they are following you in hope for a feed"

What you are referring to here is known as food operant conditioning. The axolotl is not curious, it has come to associate the movement of a person outside the enclosure with food and is attempting to position itself in the most advantageous point to take advantage of any food.

Axolotls do not get "lonely".

Ed

Well thanks Ed.
What can I say.... I'm a dog trainer! hehehe.
However, it does ease my mind !
(although, I do wonder with a smile, is that what one of the little buggers told you ? )hehehe