Planning on Axies: A few questions.

Good evening!

I've been a fish keeper for a very long time (bred Oscars, still keeping a broad range of African cichlids, had a play with Flowerhorns, had some other medium South American cichlids (Aulonocara spp. and the like), bred kribs for fun and profit, am working on a new specialist Ranchu set-up for my wife) but have been thinking long and hard about Axies.

I'm hoping that someone can review my planned set-up and give any comments to help me optimise it.

Here's the detail of the existing system where I plan to house it/them:
* 24 x 14 x 18" tank
* 600 l / hr canister filtration with various fine and coarse matting and bioballs
* pH ca 7.2 (allowed it to rise after the breeding programme)
* three large Amazon Sword plants
* various Anubius sp. (Anubius nana?) on driftwood
* Substrate appears to be natural tumbled quartz @ ca. 1.0 - 2.5 mm diameter
* Sub-substrate is a soil bed fortified with various iron based mud (over simplification)
* CO2 dosing is via a German pill based kit, 1 dose per two days
* CF lighting at 10000 Kelvin on a timer (presently ten hours per day)
* Mild aeration from a Schego Prima air pump (not sure of specification)
* Present occupancy: One bull bristle nose catfish (in isolation as he is a breeding machine and I am already over-run with BN pups).
* Also have some Malaysian snail infestation. I don't know how it was introduced but they're present. The BN seems to rather enjoy them as a food source. Hundreds of shells aggregate on the CF intake every couple of weeks.
* It's fundamentally an SA riverine biotope, planted tank.

The plan is:
* relocate existing BN somewhere else
* Add one or more Axie
* Halt CO2 dosing
* Reduce lighting period to six to eight hours per day (say 16:00 to 00:00, when I am at home and can see the little blighters)
* Be happy and smile at ever-smiling Axie(s).

My concerns are:
* that the substrate gravel could be too small and pose an intestinal health issue for Axies
* the Axies could dig and release some toxic materials from the soil sub-substrate (it's black and it smells sulphurous (ie iron sulphide, rotten egg smell) when it is exposed accidentally)
* there is too much plant life in the system for the Axies to have a nice place to run around
* the ambient temperature here is normally compaible with Axies but it can go to 38 - 45C a few days per year. How should I minimise the stress for the livestock during that time?

My questions are:
* What needs to be changed?
* Would two Axies be too much for the system size, considering their lifetime needs?
* Are there any known good sources from breeders (rather than LFS) in northern Sydney, AU?

I'm sure I will have more questions but I hope to learn from you all.

Cheers - Ozi.

Sorry I can't answer all of your questions but I will have a go at a few

"that the substrate gravel could be too small and pose an intestinal health issue for Axies"
Yes that is correct, axolotls should not be kept on gravel as it does cause impaction. I would recommend a bare tank floor or sand.

"there is too much plant life in the system for the Axies to have a nice place to run around"
Not sure about this one as I don't know what it looks like inside your tank. Basically your axolotls should move around easily between what you have in there. Plants can be a problem with axolotls as they tend to dig them out of the ground. Also as they are nocturnal, plants usually die as you have to keep the tank relatively shaded and away from sunlight. I would recommend not using lighting at all (which I noticed you have said is on 10hours a day) as it causes temperature to rise, again something that is not favourable to an axie.

"the Axies could dig and release some toxic materials from the soil sub-substrate (it's black and it smells sulphurous (ie iron sulphide, rotten egg smell) when it is exposed accidentally)"
Not sure about this one, but axies do like to uproot stuff so if there is any chance of anything toxic being released from the ground I would remove it for sure


"the ambient temperature here is normally compaible with Axies but it can go to 38 - 45C a few days per year. How should I minimise the stress for the livestock during that time?"
You need to keep your tank temperature between 14C-18C ideally. Anything above 24C for a day or so will kill your axolotl. So I would recommend you cool your tank somehow. You can use a chiller but that is the expensive option. Some people use bottles of frozen dechlorinated water and leave them to melt in the tank. Another option is to keep your axolotl in the fridge during times of high temperatures. If you do this make sure the fridge is above 5C, the container is covered so not to stress the axolotl from light and you do 100% daily water changes with dechlorinated water.

For your questions:
"What needs to be changed?"
In my opinion (others may differ) I would:
-use a different substrate (bare or sand)
-no lighting
-if you are keeping two adults, your tank should be bigger. Your current tank is about the size you would want for one axolotl (same size as mine actually). 18" is about the minimum for one axolotl.
-be careful of keeping snails (or any other creature) in with your axolotl. Whilst snails can be good for an axolotl to eat, if they are too big they can have trouble swallowing them and this leads to problems.

I would also recommend
-not sure about your filter, but axolotls get stressed with water flow so that should be kept to a minimum. Use a spray bar if your filter causes a lot of current
-cycle your tank beforehand. Not sure if that is relevant for you as it sounds like your tank is established already
-if your plants start to die, replace them with plastic
-have a hiding place for your axolotl so it can stay away from light when it wants
-not use lighting, especially if temp is going to be an issue

Also I have no ideas about breeders in Sydney, but there is a 'Species wanted' section of this forum you could post in.

Anyway, hope that helps!

Hi Sarah

Thanks for replying. Greatly appreciated.

In short, it looks as if I need to disassemble and reconfigure the SA biotype system if the Axie is to be held there.

Amazon swords, if you aren't a planted tank keeper, are HUGE. Their root systems are enormous and their leaves (in average samples at least) are more than 200 mm from tip to stalk. Mine are crazy and shoot out runners that leave the tank. .

I see that you're in MEL. You have more really hot days than we do in SYD. How do you cope with the extreme heat, for your livestock at least? It hits >40C in MEL for more than a few days in January.

Thanks for the comments about how many inches of tank per specimen. It seems that there is only room for one in the system I intend to use.

In point form:
-use a different substrate (bare or sand)
* Agreed. Any hints on what to use that can be cleaned easily?

-no lighting
* There has to be an adjustment point on this. No lighting will lead to Vitamin A and Vitamin D deficiencies in the livestock. Those conditions are rather severe and not typical of the axies' biotope. Hints?

-if you are keeping two adults, your tank should be bigger. Your current tank is about the size you would want for one axolotl (same size as mine actually). 18" is about the minimum for one axolotl.
* Agreed.

-be careful of keeping snails (or any other creature) in with your axolotl. Whilst snails can be good for an axolotl to eat, if they are too big they can have trouble swallowing them and this leads to problems.
* I don't keep snails. They are an infestation which I acquired in that system unwillingly (refer original post). They just happen to be there. So, it would seem that eradicating the snails would be a sensible precaution. Downside is that it's almost impossible to eradicate that species without either a massive dose of copper solution or shutting down the system and cleansing with a 5% bleach solution. Bummer.


-not sure about your filter, but axolotls get stressed with water flow so that should be kept to a minimum. Use a spray bar if your filter causes a lot of current
* Like most canister filters, it uses a spray bar. I gave up on hang ons and similar filter systems a LONG time ago as they lack sufficient biological filtration capacity.

-cycle your tank beforehand. Not sure if that is relevant for you as it sounds like your tank is established already
* It's well established. Chances are you have children younger than this system.

-if your plants start to die, replace them with plastic
* Never. Ever. Never ever. No can do. Plastic plants are an abomination. The only time to use those is when you have a super deep tank and no potential to provide adequate illumination to reach deep enough (eg tall cylindrical tanks and the like). Plants provide valuable biological filtration and it's our responsibility as aquiarists to provide plant life that is biotope compatible to the species we choose to keep. Plastic plants are predominantly for the retrograde fishkeeper who is barely compentent to keep fish and who puts garish baubles in the system. Not an option. Unapologetic on this point.


-have a hiding place for your axolotl so it can stay away from light when it wants
* Easy. Have hollow terracotta logs, nicel y encrusted with algae big enough for a juvenile Ax. Will need some larger hiding places for an adult.

-not use lighting, especially if temp is going to be an issue
* I think lighting can be eliminated in the warmest month of summer (January). It generally produces a 2 - 3C increase. There is enough ambient UV to assist the plants to continue growing well. However, the technique of using a bottle of ice in the hottest part of the calendar would seem to be beneficial if used judiciously.

My outstanding concern is that I know that livestock tend to be more consistently healthy if their environment is consistent. IME All fish do better if their environmental temperature is consistent. If it fluctuates 3 - 5 C per day (as it would normally in Eastern Australia, more like 10C or more), then they are sooner ready for a 'burial at sea' [cue: flushing toilet sound]. My intent is to make sure any specimens THRIVE rather than merely SURVIVE.

All that said, I'm not afraid to invest in a refrigerant chiller. I want the species in my collection therefore I must assume the costs. A little chiller is about AUD$1200, which seems silly when an Axie is about AUD$15 - 25. However, it's a long lived species and for a potential life span of 20+ years, it's a small investment.

Still, hints from any other Axy keepers in Australia or elsewhere would be well appreciated. I would prefer to do this the right way first time for the obvious reasons.

Cheers - Ozi.

Ok cool:

Substrates: I think sand or a bare tank floor is your best option. Some people use largish rocks or ornaments only. Bare tank floor is easiest to clean but some people don't find it aesthetically pleasing. I use sand from a hardware store. I find it easy enough to clean with a suction hose and looks decent enough.

Lighting: well lighting is up to what works with you. If you are going to invest in a chiller, that is the best option I think, so you will be less likely to have temperature issues. Not sure about vitamin deficiencies... have not heard about that with axies, so perhaps someone else can offer some advice here?

Plants: to each their own. Again, axolotls are nocturnal so most people find it difficult to maintain live plants and plastic are an alternative for an axie to find shade in. I don't think you should make sweeping generalisations about the abilities of people who use plastic plants in their tanks or call them garish baubles - as I said, to each their own (And I am unapologetic on that point ) - so if you don't like plastic don't use it but many people do use plastic by choice or necessity. I personally use live floating plants as shade as I have not been able to keep any rooted plants alive in the darkness I keep my tank in. I don't like plastic plants personally so I have used mugs and driftwood for shelter for my axolotl.

Snails: How big are they? If they are large I would suggest getting rid of them for the reasons I mentioned before. But I would say that many people keep snails in their tanks with no worries - it really depends on the system you have.

Temperature: Frozen bottles are a good way to reduce temperature, but they need to be done correctly to maintain a stable temperature. I use an Ice-Probe Chiller which is the best I could afford ($200). It can drop the temperature on my 60L tank 4-6C, which is sufficient to my needs but not for many people. I think if you have a larger tank you would need a refridgerated chiller (or more than one Ice Probe) and if you can afford it I think you should invest in a good chiller given our climate in Australia (well I would!). But again, my opinion only... My apartment has no aircon so usually heats to ambient temperature outside so if it gets too hot I just put my axolotl in the fridge for a while. He seems to enjoy the holiday So far I have not had to do that other than when my chiller's US power converter broke and during that time I used icebottles and fridging to keep my axie cool. Here is an article if you need more ideas about cooling: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cooling.shtml.

Also, my temperature fluctuates by about 3C a day (drops that at night and increases during the day) and I have not had any burials at sea yet . My axie seems to be thriving - growing all the time, active (especially when he has guppies to chase ) and very healthy looking. So I think you have to find what works for you.

The rest it sounds like you have under control.

Hi Ozi - welcome to the forum!

Substrate - easiest overall I've found is bare tank floor. Saying that we still have a few of our original tanks with sand in - I get a dirty look from my husband if I even suggest removing it (considering he spent all the time cleaning it). Aesthetically, sand does look more appealing. Other people have also siliconed gravel/sand to the tank floor rather than leaving it loose.



Plants wise - well they've never lasted very long in our tanks (due to axies digging them up and dying) but you may have better luck . Axies love to hover/hangout amongst plants. One of our friends has his tank completely filled with some aquarium plant (some type of moss) and you usually might catch a glimpse of an axie head or tail peeping out. Some people have even placed their plants into little potplants to anchor them before immersing them in the tank and then leave the surrounding floor bare. I'm sure you'll find something that works

Axies are coldwater amphibians (not fish - but I'm sure you know that), they do far better in colder temperatures than warm temperatures. Keeping it below 20C is by far best. Ours thrive during the winter (between 12-15C) and tend to stress a bit as the temperature rises 20C and above... We very rarely get temperatures above 32C in our city if we're lucky; but temperatures can be a bit more extreme further North and South of us depending on where you live.

Anything stressful to your axie, be it temperature or water quality, can lead to fungal infections and/or sickness. When this happens your axolotl would need to be fridged as the chill temperatures slows their metabolism down to give them a chance to heal. Fungal infections can be treated initially with salt baths 2-3 times daily if they occur; they shouldn't be treated with fish medications = most of which are toxic to an axolotl.