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Poll: species mixing

This is a discussion on Poll: species mixing within the General Discussion & News from Members forums, part of the General Topics category; I would like to see what the percentages really are for mixing species. While I believe that "official policy" (if ...

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View Poll Results: Do you mix species in your set-ups?

Mix newts/salamanders with invertebrates (glass shrimp, snails...) 203 40.28%
Mix newts/salamanders with fish 120 23.81%
Mix newts/salamanders with other species of newts/salamander 79 15.67%
Mix newts/salamanders with frogs/toads 36 7.14%
Mix newts/salamanders with reptiles 7 1.39%
None of the above 216 42.86%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 504. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 18th December 2007   #1 (permalink)
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Default Poll: species mixing

I would like to see what the percentages really are for mixing species. While I believe that "official policy" (if there is such a thing) is, that species mixing is risky and not really a good idea, many of us mix newts with fish, invertebrates, and other things. I also think that this is a subject that people are passionate about, so just remember to be respectful of other people's opinions.

1. Mix newts/salamanders with invertebrates (glass shrimp, snails...)
2. Mix newts/salamanders with fish.
3. Mix newts/salamanders with other species of newts/salamander.
4. Mix newts/salamanders with frogs/toads.
5. Mix newts/salamanders with reptiles.
6. None of the above.

You may vote for more than one option; vote for all of the options you practice.

Feel free to elaborate in a post on this thread; for example, if there are things you take into account before mixing (ex. what factors you take into account before mixing the species you have chosen, or whether you did any research on specifics, if you limit yourself to only certain species, etc.)



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Old 18th December 2007   #2 (permalink)
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I voted for yes for #3. I don't mix random newts/salamanders in the same tank, but I am guilty of species mixing with some of my Ambystomids. I have a group of A.tigrinum in the same enclosure with an A.mavortium. They are very closely related, and are of about the same size. I wouldn't suggest mixing newt/salamanders except for species that are compatible.



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Old 18th December 2007   #3 (permalink)
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I mix my axolotl with baby guppies. I have a friend with a couple of aquariums who bought guppies to breed so she could give me feeder fish. She helped me do all the research before I bought an axolotl and we found out that guppies are good nutritionally, are easy to breed and are hardy fish, so I decided on them as food. The babies are too small to really do any damage to my axie, which is what I would worry about with other feeder fish.

I probably wouldn't do this if I had to buy guppies from a store as I'd be worried about disease and I have no real place to quarantine them. My friend has never had disease in her tanks for the last two or three years so I don't quarantine them at all, just chuck them in and Maxolotl eats them when he is in the mood. He is a pretty lazy hunter though and will generally only eat the guppies if they swim past his face



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Old 18th December 2007   #4 (permalink)
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Mavortium and tigrinum will hybridize.

I have small snails with mij newts and thats it. (Ok I also mix daphnia, tubifex etc, with my newts but that never lasts)



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Old 18th December 2007   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunsven View Post
Mavortium and tigrinum will hybridize.

I have small snails with mij newts and thats it. (Ok I also mix daphnia, tubifex etc, with my newts but that never lasts)
Hybridization in an indoor viv would not be a risk.



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Old 18th December 2007   #6 (permalink)
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on the contrary, it is a risk!

When they mix you can't see if the offspring is mavortium or tigrinum. So you get strange mixes and you don't know where they'll end



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Old 18th December 2007   #7 (permalink)
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Rob and Roy, neither tiger species has been documented as breeding in captivity indoors (although there is one report out of Japan). So the risk of them hybridizing is nil.

I have daphnia in most of my tanks, and I've mixed ambystomatid species as well. Do 'food items' really count?



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Old 18th December 2007   #8 (permalink)
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I don't think that food items should be considered in this poll. It is essential for food to go in the environments. Food items should be ruled out when voting in this poll (in my humble opinion).

What say you, Dawn?



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Old 18th December 2007   #9 (permalink)
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Well, by that, I suppose I meant inverts that inhabit tanks (Daphnia, copepods, etc), as well as maybe feeder fish? I'm not really sure where the line is between cohabitation and food. I don't use feeder fish.



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Old 18th December 2007   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunsven View Post
Mavortium and tigrinum will hybridize.

I have small snails with mij newts and thats it. (Ok I also mix daphnia, tubifex etc, with my newts but that never lasts)
That won't be happening because they're in a 20 gallon tank indoors, and all of them are under a year old. I would be happy if they hybridized because I'd be the first to breed them indoors.



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Old 18th December 2007   #11 (permalink)
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I only voted for the newt/invert mix because of the snails that I have that came in on the plants. I have toyed with the idea of introducing a small school of white clouds in with my T. kweichowensis however after some consideration I decided that the extra bioload is not worth it.
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Old 18th December 2007   #12 (permalink)
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Arrow

I did my research on this site mainly.. I keep 2 P Hongkongensis with glass shrimp and white cloud minnows. I've also kept C orientalis with the same. I have wondered, why can we not keep a newt of equal build and mouth size with an axolotl? Toxidity could be a reason, but if this was also considered what other reason is there? I'm not suggesting put an axolotl with a paddletail!!
What do people think about sea monkeys(can't remember proper name) with newts?



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Old 18th December 2007   #13 (permalink)
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I'm not a species mixer at all so there's my bias off the bat. I'm a mixer if you include the bacteria and various Platyhelminthes and Nematodes that I'm sure are in my aquaria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lims View Post
I did my research on this site mainly.. I keep 2 P Hongkongensis with glass shrimp and white cloud minnows. I've also kept C orientalis with the same. I have wondered, why can we not keep a newt of equal build and mouth size with an axolotl? Toxidity could be a reason, but if this was also considered what other reason is there? I'm not suggesting put an axolotl with a paddletail!!
What do people think about sea monkeys(can't remember proper name) with newts?
Sea monkeys are Artemia and would not cohabitat with newts because they need high saline waters to survive. This is not good for newts. That's why when people feed baby brine shrimp they are told to remove the uneaten shrimp quickly or they will die and foul the water.

As for newts of a similar size with axolotls, how many newts are there that get that big? Unless we're talking mudpuppies, sirens, amphiumas or maybe Pleurodeles I'm coming up short on species that meet that requirement. With the above listed animals I'd be worried about aggression or possible acts of predation.



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Old 18th December 2007   #14 (permalink)
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Is this a redundent poll? Everyone on the forum is always saying dont mix this, don't mix that. It's wrong to mix correct? Sorry if I sound blunt or rude, but I'm a little confused.



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Old 18th December 2007   #15 (permalink)
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Ryan, while we generally do NOT recommend keeping different species together, especially for beginners, some of us still keep closely related species together (such as different species of Triturus, or the two species of tiger salamanders, etc).



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Old 19th December 2007   #16 (permalink)
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Ahhh I see, thank you Kaysie. That makes sense.



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Old 19th December 2007   #17 (permalink)
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As to the purpose (or redundancy) of this poll, Dawn will have to address that. I encouraged her to post it because I think that it will reveal some important things. For one, a lot of people (perhaps most?) do keep other animals with their newts - but usually within certain limits. For another, it lets us hash out WHY we do this, and what is or isn't a reasonable mix.

For myself, I have white cloud minnows in a couple of tanks (including 1 tank where eggs are laid and larvae raised in situ). I have lots of small pond snails. And I have kept glass shrimp with newts in the past, but they have never lived for more than a few months. For me, this is where I draw the line.

I did keep eastern and firebellied newts together for a while, but the easterns displayed some odd behavior that I've never seen in a single-species tank, so I do think different species pose a "stress" even when they don't pose a threat to each other.

I think feeders shouldn't really count for the purpose of this poll. But sometimes the line between "tankmate" and "feeder" is a little blurry. When I had glass shrimp, they were tankmates, but if the newts had eaten them as dinner, it wouldn't have bothered me.



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Old 19th December 2007   #18 (permalink)
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By inverts I didn't mean food, bacteria or nematodes, although I keep guppies with my Notos so the fry can be an alternate food source. I used to keep white clouds with them but they all died, and the guppies thrived, so I didn't get any more white clouds. I also have a tank of 'orphan' newts, where I had trios of species and one or two died off, so there's only one or two left. I have two C. orientalis, one N. strauchi, and one T. marmoratus together only because I didn't want to have three separate tanks for these guys. They get along OK, they're of similar size and seem to have similar habits.

As for the poll being redundant, I think the results speak for themselves. Sure, the party line is not to mix, but the poll percentages show that not everyone keeps to that. The fact that people argue about it indicates that there are varying opinions. And here people can say how, if they mix, they choose to do so. I started with the fish because I read in a book about newts that they would eat the fry. I chose these two species of fish because they do well in the temperature range dictated by the newts. I wouldn't keep a goldfish with them, though, because they are so big. But I know some people keep goldfish with axolotls.

Jenn, I am curious to know what behavior you are referring to. When I started on the forum, I also kept Notos with C. orientalis, but when the Notos started amplexing the C. orientalis, I separated them, because of what I learned on this site. Is that what you meant? I never noticed any other odd behavior.




Last edited by Otterwoman; 19th December 2007 at 05:08. Reason: clarity
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Old 19th December 2007   #19 (permalink)
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I advise people not to mix species of salamanders. I have raised juvenile axolotls and ribbed newts together when pressed for space. When begged for my recommendations for a mixed tank I guessed that Mesotriton alpestris and Cynops cyanurus would probably be o.k. together. I have accidently raised them together for a couple months. I plopped the one cyanurus in the alpestris tank by mistake.

I keep snails in some of my salamander tanks as tagalongs. I have intentionally kept them in hatchling tanks as clean up crews.

I raised a couple Triturus dobrogicus from egg to subadult in a dwarf crayfish tank. It was only a couple eggs and as far as I can tell the crayfish didn't bother the eggs or salamanders much.

I have kept white mountain clouds in axolotl tanks.

When it was still legal I put a bunch of eastern newts in my outside ponds with goldfish. Their are still some around and I don't think they are eaten by the fish.

I've noticed some newbies like to try a mixed amphibian tank. I always get questions about what can I put in with my tree frog or firebelly toad. I always tell them another tree frog or fire bellied toad.

I don't recommend mixing things but have done it occassionally.



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Old 19th December 2007   #20 (permalink)
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Arrow mixing..

Sorry Abe I meant triops not sea-monkeys, does anyone mix triops with newts?
I think it is a good general policy to not mix species, I'm sure it will prevent some disasters. However, as shown here, some of us will take nature into our own hands, rightly or wrongly.
One thing I have never done is keep any kind of fish with an axolotl. I was under the impression any fish may nibble at the gills, is this also true of white cloud minnows? I would quite like to keep some of them with my 4 inch wild-type.
I once kept a very small common frog on the land section of my C. orientalis tank. He was very happy and got so overly confident that he would attack my hand (jump at it constantly) trying to get any worms going. It was quite astonishing how much his attitude changed over a few weeks from shy to outright rude!
But anyway, neither him nor the C. orientalis seemed at all bothered, but I wouldn't recomend doing it for long. I only kept him for a few months then let him go. Raising tadpoles as newt food is fun, some might just live to be frogs if they're lucky! (probably not though)




Last edited by lims; 19th December 2007 at 21:29. Reason: Grammar
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