Scientific Nomenclature

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Azhael

It´s true not all the roots used in scientific nomenclature are latin, in fact a large amount is greek. However, those roots are latinicized, because scientific nomenclature is officially latin, therefore should be pronounced with latin standards and not greek.

I understand it´s a lot easier to pronounce scientific names as one would say the word in his own language, but i think it nullifies the basic purpose of scientific nomenclature which is to be exactly the same for absolutely everyone, with no possible mistake. As i said i generally find it really hard to understand an english speaker using scientific names, and i take for granted that any english speaker would have a hard time understanding me....which is a bummer.

You run into a whole new problem here: which Latin pronunciation do you use? Ecclesiastical Latin is different from Medeival Latin is different from Classical Latin. There were also dialects; an ancient Roman from Naples would probably have pronounced the "H" in Hyla, one from Padua would probably have not, and one from Rome itself may or may not have depending on his level of education (a well-educated Roman would be familiar enough with Greek to recognize Hyla as a Greek-derived word and pronounce it according to the koine standard, which did pronounce initial rough breathings, rendered in Latin as "H"). So...yeah. There's no simple solution.

I have found that somewhat normalized pronunciations arise within each group of individuals who typically talk to one another. American herpetologists have a different set of pronunciations from American herp hobbyists. I haven't been around zookeepers or professional herpetoculturalists much, they may have different sets as well. I would guess the same is true in other countries. So just listen to others in your group and try to use the same pronunciations they use. After all, communication is the goal, not correctness.

[Chopper Greg]

Originally Posted by blueberlin

Ok I'll wager an opinion. Latin seems fair to me exactly because it's a language nobody uses anymore. Equally difficult for everyone, I suppose. .

-Eva

I would say that is the perfect argument against it.

It's not flexible, it's difficult for everyone, it's pronunciation varies with the local dialect to the point where it's not universally understood ( even though that is why it is supposedly used for scientific nomenclature ) and except for the Pope and his cohorts it's mostly a dead language.

At least metric can be understood by most people in the world - and if not understood can be easily converted into something that is understood.

[Matt]

Great post. Scientifific nomenclature, although sometimes annoying and tedious, is a much more reliable way to commicate information regarding any organisms. Amphibians are no exception.

Matt

[Natural designs]

I know this is super late. But I thought I would put in my two cents. I have had this thread in mind for a while and now that I have taken a (classical) latin class everything is so much easier. Scientific nomenclature follows the pronunciation in LATIN. No rules of english, german, spanish, etc. apply. And it also follows that since greek pronunciation is so close to latin, the same rules will apply in spoken greek and latin nomenclature. Latin is a dead language therefore words will not change nor will the phonetics. Which is why, to my knowledge, it is used as the universal scientific language. I will clear a few things up right now. I should point out real quick that my latin professor speaks 5 languages and never once did he mix any in. German, portuguese, spanish, english, and latin. He is a native brazilian.

I should also state that classical latin is the most preferred usage of the language and is the one used in scientific nomenclature.


Alright lets get started

"H" is pronounced and is not silent
"Ae" is pronounced "I"
"LL" is pronounced as it is in english
"Ch" is pronounced a hard "K" sound
"V" is pronounced as an english "W"
"Th" is pronounced "tuh"
"-us" is pronounced "oos"
"Au" is pronounced "ow"
"I" is pronounced "ee"

An exception to the rule is if the latin word is used in the language that is spoken in which case the dominant language is used...
For example: "placenta" in latin is (pla-ken-ta) and means cake while in english the word is pronounced (pla-sen-ta).

Here are some latin words to help digest pronunciation.
Dinosaurus (dee-no-sow-roos) dinosaur
Silva (sil-wa) forest or woods
Elephantus (ell-ē-fon-toos) elephant
Crocodilus (cro-co-dee-loos) crocodile
Aedificium (I-dee-fee-cee-oom) building

Also when I talk to people I generally use common name. Its easier because people tend to learn common names quicker then they do scientific ones.

[Jakob]

Could you elaborate how pronounciation differs from german? Except for the ae, which in germany often is pronounced as an a (ä), and maybe the ch, which except for bavaria will most likely be spoken not as k - I found that german pronounciation pretty much matches the latin. In fact, more often it occurs that people switch to what they think is latin pronounciation (the C as a sharp Tz, not as a K).

This would be interesting, as you seem to have fresh knowledge and I can imagine my teachers in school taught me wrong, due to their own german-ness.

[Natural designs]

I should elaborate on what I meant. I mean that you should pronounce latin words in latin and no other language. If it so happens that german corresponds with latin it makes comprehension that much easier. I said that because as Azhael said english speakers tend to over anglicize words of another language. Which I find hilarious. I took three years of spanish in high school and the third year there were still kids saying "hola" with a heavy "H" sound.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by eljorgo

Agree at 100%. Scientific nomenclature have been much avoided from what I saw. Personally I almost never referred to newts or other living being by their common names using always scientific nomenclature that is much easier and objective to use. After learning you´ll never forget

Agreed...this was pounded into my head several years ago in college biology class and it's still in there...lol

[FrogEyes]

I would not consider formal Latin pronunciation to be any kind of standard in this case, because a very large chunk of animal names are not Latin in origin and were never intended to be pronounced in Latin. It's an okay starting point, but that's all it is, particularly since I don't believe the Code contains any rules about pronunciation.

[Natural designs]

Originally Posted by FrogEyes

I would not consider formal Latin pronunciation to be any kind of standard in this case, because a very large chunk of animal names are not Latin in origin and were never intended to be pronounced in Latin. It's an okay starting point, but that's all it is, particularly since I don't believe the Code contains any rules about pronunciation.

To my understanding there is no formal code on how to speak in scientific nomenclature. I hear and even read many different pronunciations of certain words, but they are false pronunciations if they do not follow the informal code of languages. One does not pronounce Spanish words in English or English words in French. We use the pronunciation required by the language, which is why Latin should be pronounced according to Latin and Greek should be pronounced according to Greek.

[FrogEyes]

Originally Posted by asfouts

To my understanding there is no formal code on how to speak in scientific nomenclature. I hear and even read many different pronunciations of certain words, but they are false pronunciations if they do not follow the informal code of languages. One does not pronounce Spanish words in English or English words in French. We use the pronunciation required by the language, which is why Latin should be pronounced according to Latin and Greek should be pronounced according to Greek.

I agree, but scientific names of animals are largely non-Latin, and most people won't know what the etymology of the various words is, Latin or otherwise. That leaves us not even at "square one", because in order to pronounce words correctly, people would have to learn the etymology as well, and not just of Latin.

It's worth noting that many words in English are not of English origin, and are no longer pronounced [or spelled] even close to their original forms. For that matter, people can't even spell or pronounce ENGLISH words correctly. It might help if everyone spoke at least one language other than English, Spanish being especially useful. Learning the rules of another language can give better insight into many things, including your own language. English, for instance, follows some of the same rules as Spanish, but no-one is taught or even aware of these rules. I am thinking in particular of the rules governing "C", "G", and hard and soft vowels. "G" is pronounced "J" before "E" or "I", and "G" before "A", "O", or "U". For "C", it's "S" and "K" respectively. This rule is taught in Spanish, not in English, but consulting any dictionary will reveal that the rule is nonetheless there. I think this is likely why some languages have dropped the letter C entirely, and replaced it with S or K. When schools no longer teach or grade for spelling, it's no wonder that "Mojave" is often spoken as "mo-jayv". I too find myself cringing, far too often.

I think that anyone who learns enough names, will gradually come to an understanding of the various languages of origin and the more-or-less correct pronunciations, especially if they are also multilingual.

To my understanding there is no formal code on how to speak in scientific nomenclature.

To clarify, I am refering to the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature, formally refered to as "the Code" for short. This is the only set of rules for Linnaean zoological names [ie, apart from Phylocode, which is something quite different], and it applies Latin grammatical rules but no rules on pronunciation nor any other Latin requirements.

[Leanne Dynneson]

One question: how would you pronounce viridescens ? Thanks!