Daphnia

Is it a good idea to try to collect some from ponds this time a year? It's about 10C and generally bad weather(fall in Sweden...), maybe it is to cold(and dark...) for Daphnia? I have never collected before so I have no clues other than I am supposed to get a very fine net and go to a nearby pond and get to work

[Colin]

hi jesper... works for me, i have been doing it since May and have had no problems.

I am getting a lot of phantom midge larvae just now, the newts eat them all the same

http://crawford.tardigrade.net/bugs/BugofMonth05.html

My Daphnia in the outdoor tub culture had looked to all but disappear a few weeks back, now they are teeming again. In fact they are at the highest levels I have seen since starting the culture.

I got a net the other day and went out to fish for Daphnia today!
Did I find newt food or what!!
I have so many living things I don't know what to do with them all
What can I feed the newts? I think I can differentiate the Daphnia from the rest, but I got loads of some species that are much smaller than Daphnia too...
I am a little afraid of gammarus since Chris's P.hongkonhensis larvae got attacked by them...

(Message edited by Jesper on November 07, 2004)

Hrm, I am trying to identify what I caught today..
I would say that 90% is Copepods, mainly Cyclops.
I've got plenty of Branchiopods, mainly Daphnia.
I've got some Amphipods(scuds) that I haven't managed to identify yet and finally one Isopod(slater), Ligia(?).

Well identification....its not like identifying a mammal

Jesper
It was cyclops that attacked the Paramesotriton. In my excperience pond type newtsd ignore them, but they irritate stream newts like Para and Pachytriton
Chris

Ah, It was you who had problems with cyclops and Morg and Joseph who warned about mixing larvae with gammarus. Disturbing that I'll have to worry about the tiny Cyclops attacking the orientalis(they're pond newts but still..) larvae *sigh*

Have anyone else had problems with Cyclops?

The scuds I caught seem to have a party eating cyclops.... I would never mix those with larvae!

Jesper, search the archives for "cyclops" AND "larvae". There have been other reports of cyclops attacking small larvae. In fact, there's even one in the Caudata Culture "Don't Do This" article.

I know of two reports here of cyclops attacking small larvae.
One from Paris:
"since i found out that cyclops were what killed my axolotls"
One from Chris:
"larvae seemed to start disappearing and I just found out that it was cyclops type animals eating them"

Additional input:
Caleb:
"Cyclops are predatory, and fishkeepers have accused them of attacking very young fish fry. It's possible that they could attack very young newt larvae. I have used them as food for newt larvae in the past without any problems- they are useful for larvae that are not big enough to eat Daphnia."

John Clare:
"Cyclops are nearly impossible to avoid in any tank, except one full of small newt larvae because they get eaten. All of my tanks have Cyclops in them. Most Cyclops species you'll encounter are harmless, and the ones that aren't are way too small to harm adult or juvenile newts."

Ed:
"There are some species of copopods that can and will predate upon larval fish (both fresh water and marine). While keeping this in mind they still make wonderful food for many small newts and salamanders."

Coen:
"I'm feeding my larvaes pond water which contains the micro organisms and I go out every now and then to catch some cyclops and daphnia."


http://www.thekrib.com/Food/cyclops.html
In this link someone is accusing cyclops of attacking fish fry and of being almost as big as Daphnia in the UK.

Finally from what I have gathered from around the web cyclops are very small animals(max. 3mm), people seem to confuse bigger predatory copepods that attack fish fry and newt larvae with cyclops pretty often. However cyclops are omnivores that eat almost anything that they come across like algae, bacteria, dead organic matter etc.
So they probably can attack larvae but if there's other food items I presume they prefer them...
The best advise I have found are that cyclops(not to be confused with other copepods) aren't dangerous to larvae if fed in proper amounts i.e. do not feed huge amounts that will eradicate all food available and then have to go for the larvae:
http://fins.actwin.com/live-foods/mo.../msg00016.html

I find it a little difficult to see why feeding cyclops to larvae should be considered a "don't do" even though one should keep an eye open and not add too much.

(Message edited by Jesper on November 08, 2004)

Jesper, your logic amazes me. You see several reports of cyclops eating larvae and fish fry and you find it difficult to understand why it's a "don't do"???

It's likely that there are different sizes and species of cyclops, and some of them may be harmless. But since most people don't have the ability to measure them or distinguish among different types, it seems safer to say that cyclops should be avoided.

Many larva tanks don't have other food available to feed the cyclops... in the absence of other food, they will attack the larvae. That's not an animal I want in my larva tank!

Cyclops are present in breeding ponds all over the world! I wonder how the larvae in nature survive?

My guess would be that people that have problems with cyclops attacks(if it is indeed cyclops attacks..) have probably loaded the larvae container with cyclops. I think there's plenty of food, decaying plant materials, algae and infusoria and bacteria in most waters to support a healthy cyclops population.

http://fins.actwin.com/live-foods/mo.../msg00017.html
As this link point out:
"To deal with the carnivorous aspect, never feed Cyclops to fish in a tank with eggs or to fry that still have any part of their yolk sac; never feed more than the fish can eat in a short time."

If you use cyclops under these restriction it seems to me to be a very easily accessible, cheap, nutritious and natural food item for larvae.

Some of the confusion here arises from lack of taxonomists!
Copepods are a diverse group of freshwater crustaceans:
http://www.nmnh.si.edu/iz/copepod/
Cyclops is just one genus in a much larger group of animals.
Cyclops does not equal copepod, so to avoid confusion, do not use the terms interchangably.
I would be staggered as to whether most of the web reports of predatory copepods have been reliably identified as Cyclops.

Problem is that most people do use cyclops as a name for small copepods, so if I'd say small copepods I would get another problem in people not understanding. I'm not even sure about the family(despite microscope) of my small copepods so order is indeed the correct term here(i.e. Copepoda).

Do you use small copepods to feed larvae yourself Alan?

(Message edited by Jesper on November 09, 2004)

Yes, as JC said, I've never managed a Daphnia culture without copepods, so they all get fed together. Sifted "Daphnia" consists largely of copepods for me! Never had a problem, which is not to say than some species of copepod could cause problems - they can!

So you think using small copepods is worth the risc then eh? Care to share how you think then?

"To deal with the carnivorous aspect, never feed Cyclops(sic!) to fish in a tank with eggs or to fry that still have any part of their yolk sac; never feed more than the fish can eat in a short time." (Cyclops=small copepods)

Do you think that is good advise or do you use small copepods in larger quantities when feeding the larvae?

I tend to start larvae on newly hatched brine shrimp and/or microworms, then move onto sifted "Daphnia" (Warning: May contain Copepods) as a second stage food.

i have babie newts that just hatched and i also have a choice to feed them either frozen brine shrimp or Daphnia[frozen] ? which one would you prefer? theyre not eating they hatched about 4 days ago? what should i do do you have any advice please help me fast?

thanks

They still have their yolksacs 4 days after hatching so they shouldn't be eating until it disappears - in my experience 1-2 weeks after hatching(depends on the temp at which you hold them - I kept mine rather cold ~18-19C).

pdpdpd, I would not recommend either one. Larvae eat in response to live food (moving). Try to find either brine shrimp eggs (to hatch into tiny live food) or live blackworms. If this is impossible, you can try chopped frozen bloodworms, but it is very rare for someone to succeed with any non-live food. See:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/raising.shtml
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/microfoods.shtml

Yeah, you americans(if you are american) are lucky to have the blackworms! I agree with Jen frozen food are hopeless - you can actually handfeed but that takes sooooooo much time and you WILL get sick of it

Live Daphnia also works well - they produce BBS-size babies, microworms works too.