E.hortensis culture advice.

[Rodrigo]

Hi, i´m finally going to try my hand at culturing worms for my caudates. I never did in the past because well....i had less animals xD, and because i didn´t want to take up even more space with another container.
For some time i´ve been relying on a good friend who´s been sending me worms from his own culture, but that´s just not practical, and so it´s time for being swarmed with lots of worms for my babies

I need advice on how big the container should be. What is the volume you would recommend for an inside culture that would satisfy the needs for a medium sized collection?? I was thinking of using a rubbermaid container of aproximately 50l, would that be enough? I´m getting about 1000 E.hortensis for the culture, by the way.

Thanx for your time :)

[Lusiwarrior]

Hi Azhael,
I have a culture very small, but the relation of mind that made the number of worms / space, I think 50l are not sufficient to 1000 worms. They gonna need a lot of space, do not forget it! Maybe it is best to use something more or else reduce the number of worms, perhaps half.
Good luck with that!

[ambertastic]

I'm no expert but the main thing you're going for is surface area. They say a square foot (so 30 cm^2) per lb... I think a lb of E. hortensis is about 500 worms.

[Rodrigo]

Well, i´ve set the culture media in a big 86l rubbermaid container.
I´ve used lots of cardboard, paper towels, some newspaper, vegetable scraps, some soil, etc...
I´ve also added springtails and isopods, since i read it´s a very good idea to have them in the culture to compete with mites, keep fungae under control, etc.

I have a question about what cardboard materials are ok to use. I see that websites about composting use pretty much any kind of cardboard...from cereal boxes to colored egg crates. I´ve avoided cardboards with pigment, but i wonder if the ones with colors can be used safely. Would it have any effect on the newts when i feed them the worms grown with it??? Composters have brilliant results with it but i´´m not sure it´s safe if the worms are going to be used as fodder.
Any experience on this will be greatly apreciated.

[Lusiwarrior]

Cardboard! This is good never heard of, is a fantastic amount of information found on this internet! Well starting with the fact that paper and paperboard are made from wood pulp, which in turn is made of organic matter that I think will work, but concerned the role of pigments I would not risk, for I am very suspicious!
I feed my only with a mixture of kornflakes, rabbit poop and fruit. The results are seen there, I waited 6 months, but now I have dozens of young, great for young newts! Appears that the kornflakes have all the nutrients they need! However says the secret is in the rabbit poop! Only have one ground only, peat, but the mixture of soil it is recommended! To mine the land use clay!
I have helped!

[Jennewt]

I have occasionally used some cardboard for my worms, but I usually try to use only peat moss or coconut fiber if I'm using the worms as feeders. The inks on newspaper and cardboard are non-toxic these days, but I'd rather not take chances with the other chemicals that might be in paper products.

My hortensis eat only the scraps from my kitchen: old bread and the unwanted parts from fruits/vegetables. This seems to be quite sufficient for fast reproduction. I keep a small covered trash bin under my kitchen sink, and this is the separate place for collecting "worm trash".

[Brian Pruitt]

I used cardboard and I think worms can actually feed on the cardboard itself. They say ot to use xerox paper because of the toner I think.

[Molch]

I'm getting some hortensis this week - a few more culture questions:

- what is a good culture temp for E. hortensis?
- how exactly do you set up the substrate, eg, what % of peat moss, coco fiber etc?
- how deep is the substrate? Does it need to be loose enough to be well aerated?

[Jennewt]

They are most productive when warm (70-85F). They survive down to near-freezing, but stop doing much when they are cold.

I use coco-fiber with some crushed egg shell. In the past I used peat moss with egg shell. It doesn't seem to make any difference. I switched because I heard that peat moss is an unsustainable product.

The substrate needs to be deep enough to bury the food. I would start with at least 6 inches. Over time, it gets compacted and you have to add more peat or coco. When it starts to seem too deep and too compact, you can lure all the worms to one side (put the food only on one side), then remove the wormless compost and replace with fresh bedding.

[Molch]

many thanks. I look forward to these guys. I'll stick 'em in my loft where it's warm.

I'll also mix in some leaf litter; I read online that they like it, and it'll help fluff up the substrate. All my other bugs (isos, white worms, springtails) love the leaf litter...

[Rodrigo]

One small suggestion, freeze the leaf-litter first. Mites and other stuff will appear anyway, but you don´t want to introduce a variety of them with the leaf-litter. Some spores will survive the freezing but that´s good as the fungae will help feed the worms.

[Molch]

Originally Posted by Azhael

One small suggestion, freeze the leaf-litter first. Mites and other stuff will appear anyway, but you don´t want to introduce a variety of them with the leaf-litter. Some spores will survive the freezing but that´s good as the fungae will help feed the worms.

hehe, no worries there. I collected these leaves at 30 below last winter; the dried, frozen leaves are blown across the snow and collect in hollows and ditches. Freeze-dried by mama Nature :)

[Rodrigo]

xDDD What was i thinking....

[Molch]

okay, I just got 2 pounds of E. hortensis in the mail. Yay! They look delicious.

I have them in a rubbermaid tub w. coco coir and some leaves as substrate.

So here come the stupid questions:

- how exactly do I feed these guys? If I give them kitchen scraps, say, banana peels or lettuce or tea bags, should I shred them up and mix them into the substrate? Or bury them whole in the substrate?

- how dense can the worms be and still be happy. Let's say, how many worms could you have in cup full of substrate? Ball-park estimate?

- Should I drill holes in the side of the tub as well or are some holes in the lid enough ventilation?

[Rodrigo]

It´s best to feed shreded foods that have been "aged" a little....in other words, on the way to rotting. They won´t feed on fresh foods, and having them in the culture is an invitation for mites and other creatures. The shreding increases the surface for bacteria, protozoans and fungi to act which is what the worms like to eat.

You don´t really need ventilation just as long as the lid is not too tight. If you want to provide some i suggest drilling some holes or a small window and covering them with cloth to prevent loss of humidity and pests getting in.

I couldn´t say about the density...Dendrobanea/Eisenia are known for clustering in high densities very much unlike other worms species. It doesn´t seem to be a problem at all, but i don´t know if sustained high densities have ill effects or not. Maybe someone else can comment on that.

Your newts are in for some good times. They will remember this as the age of plenty. Don´t be surprised if you find that they have carved your likeness in a mass of java moss.

[Eva]

After reading this thread I remembered I haven't fed my worms for quite a while - they don't seem to mind. I have just been adding cardboard and egg crate torn into small pieces (I suppose that's food for them?). This helps keeping the culture from getting too wet. I have the worms in a small bucket with a tight fitting lid with small holes. Substrate is soil and cardboard. When I put the worms into coco coir they tried to escape and many did because the container was a bit rubbish. (It was winter so the worms were inside...imagine walking into the kitchen in the morning to find dozens of dead or half dead worms strewn across the floor....)
I tend to turn the substrate over every time I feed. Once in a while there is a dead worm with mites on it but otherwise it seeems to work, there are eggs and tiny worms.

[Molch]

they are in coco coir, and they are definitely attempting a mass escape. I hope it's just because they are new. If they don't settle down, I'llI put some cardboard in there...I hope that will calm them down...:/

[Molch]

well, odd things are happening.

When I got them yesterday, I put them in 2 bins with coco coir, a few pieces of cardboard and some banana peel and rotten lettuce mixed in. Temp is about 72 F.

Alll day yesterday and all night they attempted a mass jailbreak; there were hundreds of them climbing up the walls and hanging under the lid. I kept shoving them back down all night. Someone must have told them that they are on Death Row and are destined to be eaten by voracious newt monsters.

And today...not a single climber. All are sitting in the substrate and behaving themselves.

Now, is this...
...a good thing because they have settled in?
or
... a bad thing because they are all gonna die on me?

[Michael Shrom]

Hang a light over them to keep them from escaping. Choir is o.k. for medium but I don't think they can eat it much. I bury the food. Shredded is good but big chunks are o.k. now and again. They love water melon.

New worms or extra wet substrate makes them want to roam until they are settled in. A bright light will help keep them down. Some put burlap over them but I never have.

[Molch]

thanks all; the climbing had gone down a lot; maybe they have settled in. They look good. I was a bit unsettled by the sight of 500 worms all trying to make a run for it, hehe.

For Azhael - the pics shows the Pudden on one of our freeze-dried leaf collecting trips last winter. We skijor the hills and find deep pockets of leaves where the wind has blown them into dips and depressions. We play frisbee too. These are willow, mostly Salix pulchra, glauca and lanata. Pre-sorted, cleaned and freeze-dried by Momma Nature. I use them in my forest-floor set ups and bug cultures. All the bugs and newts seem to love them. Pretty cool...