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SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

This is a discussion on SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month within the Laws/Legality and Ethics forums, part of the Herpetological Science & Politics category; (Note from the Founder of Caudata.org: We are alarmed by the Interstate Ban, not the importation ban. We are no ...

Laws/Legality and Ethics Discussion of the laws affecting herpetology around the world. Species legalities in different jurisdictions, import/export of animals, the legalities of species collection and the ethical considerations of all of the above.

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Old 12th January 2016   #1 (permalink)
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Default SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

(Note from the Founder of Caudata.org: We are alarmed by the Interstate Ban, not the importation ban. We are no more in favor of importing a disease than the writers of the bans.)

UPDATE 1/15: The Amphibian Survival Alliance has been kind enough to renew their free testing offer to us. This is your opportunity to give them real hard data on hobbyist collections being Bsal-free which we can present to USFWS to help change the inter state ban. Please act immediately because it won't be possible to send the test swabs over state lines when the ban comes into place on Jan 28th. Please read the thread at this link to get free testing kit and mailing instructions: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-a...tml#post458082

UPDATE 1/27: This thread is very long. We have a second thread with helpful info to make it easier for you to make a comment to USFWS sensibly and factually. It is here: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-a...y-version.html

Caudata.org Survey for USFWS now available. Please help us give real data to them to fight this ban: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/Caudata

Injurious Wildlife: Listing Salamanders as Injurious Due to Risk of Salamander Chytrid Fungus

Interstate movement and importation of the following species is banned under the Lacey Act, effective January 28, 2016 (end of this month). Needless to say this is the end of a huge portion of the salamander/newt hobby as we know it.

http://www.fws.gov/injuriouswildlife...er-Species.pdf

The listing includes all species in these 20 genera:
Chioglossa, Cynops, Euproctus, Hydromantes, Hynobius, Ichthyosaura, Lissotriton, Neurergus, Notophthalmus, Onychodactylus, Paramesotriton, Plethodon, Pleurodeles, Salamandra, Salamandrella, Salamandrina, Siren, Taricha, Triturus, and Tylototriton

The species are:
(1) Chioglossa lusitanica (golden striped salamander).
(2) Cynops chenggongensis (Chenggong fire-bellied newt).
(3) Cynops cyanurus (blue-tailed fire-bellied newt).
(4) Cynops ensicauda (sword-tailed newt).
(5) Cynops fudingensis (Fuding fire-bellied newt).
(6) Cynops glaucus (bluish grey newt, Huilan Rongyuan).
(7) Cynops orientalis (Oriental fire belly newt, Oriental fire-bellied newt).
(8) Cynops orphicus (no common name).
(9) Cynops pyrrhogaster (Japanese newt, Japanese fire-bellied newt).
(10) Cynops wolterstorffi (Kunming Lake newt).
(11) Euproctus montanus (Corsican brook salamander).
(12) Euproctus platycephalus (Sardinian brook salamander).
(13) Hydromantes ambrosii (Ambrosi salamander).
(14) Hydromantes brunus (limestone salamander).
(15) Hydromantes flavus (Mount Albo cave salamander).
(16) Hydromantes genei (Sardinian cave salamander).
(17) Hydromantes imperialis (imperial cave salamander).
(18) Hydromantes italicus (Italian cave salamander).
(19) Hydromantes platycephalus (Mount Lyell salamander).
(20) Hydromantes sarrabusensis (no common name).
(21) Hydromantes shastae (Shasta salamander).
(22) Hydromantes strinatii or Speleomantes strinatii (French cave salamander, Strinatiís cave
salamander).
(23) Hydromantes supramontis (Supramonte cave salamander). (24) Hynobius abei (Abeís salamander).
(25) Hynobius amakusaensis (Amakusa-sanshouo).
(26) Hynobius amjiensis (Anji salamander).
(27) Hynobius arisanensis (Arisan hynobid).
(28) Hynobius boulengeri (Odaigahara salamander).
(29) Hynobius chinensis (Chinese salamander).
(30) Hynobius dunni (Oita salamander).
(31) Hynobius formosanus (Taiwan salamander).
(32) Hynobius fucus or Hynobius fuca (Taiwan lesser salamander). (33) Hynobius glacialis (Nanhu salamander).
(34) Hynobius guabangshanensis (no common name).
(35) Hynobius hidamontanus (Hakuba salamander).
(36) Hynobius hirosei (no common name).
(37) Hynobius katoi (Akaishi sansho-uo).
(38) Hynobius kimurae (Hida salamander).
(39) Hynobius leechii (northeastern China hynobiid salamander).
(40) Hynobius lichenatus (northeast salamander).
(41) Hynobius maoershanensis (no common name).
(42) Hynobius naevius (blotched salamander).
(43) Hynobius nebulosus (misty salamander).
(44) Hynobius nigrescens (black salamander).
(45) Hynobius okiensis (Oki salamander).
(46) Hynobius osumiensis (Osumi-sanshouo).
(47) Hynobius quelpaertensis (no common name).
(48) Hynobius retardatus (Hokkaido salamander).
(49) Hynobius shinichisatoi (Sobo-sanshouo).
(50) Hynobius sonani (Sonanís hynobiid).
(51) Hynobius stejnegeri (Bekko Sansho-uo).
(52) Hynobius takedai (Hokuriku Sansho-uo).
(53) Hynobius tokyoensis (Tokyo salamander).
(54) Hynobius tsuensis (Tsushima Sansho-uo).
(55) Hynobius turkestanicus (Turkestanian salamander).
(56) Hynobius yangi (no common name).
(57) Hynobius yatsui (no common name).
(58) Hynobius yiwuensis (Yiwu hynobiid).
(59) Ichthyosaura alpestris (alpine newt).
(60) Lissotriton boscai (Boscaís newt).
(61) Lissotriton helveticus (palmate newt).
(62) Lissotriton italicus (Italian newt).
(63) Lissotriton kosswigi (Triton pontue de Kosswig).
(64) Lissotriton lantzi (no common name).
(65) Lissotriton montandoni (Carpathian newt).
(66) Lissotriton vulgaris (smooth newt).
(67) Neurergus crocatus (no common name).
(68) Neurergus derjugini or Neurergus microspilotus (Kurdistan newt).
(69) Neurergus kaiseri (Lorestan newt, Luristan newt, emperor spotted newt, Zagros newt, Iranian harlequin newt, kaiser newt).
(70) Neurergus strauchii (no common name).
(71) Notophthalmus meridionalis (black-spotted newt).
(72) Notophthalmus perstriatus (striped newt).
(73) Notophthalmus viridescens (eastern newt).
(74) Onychodactylus fischeri (long-tailed clawed salamander).
(75) Onychodactylus fuscus (Tadami clawed salamander).
(76) Onychodactylus intermedius (Bandai clawed salamander).
(77) Onychodactylus japonicus (Japanese clawed salamander).
(78) Onychodactylus kinneburi (Shikoku clawed salamander).
(79) Onychodactylus koreanus (Korai-Sansyouo).
(80) Onychodactylus nipponoborealis (Riben Bei Zhaoni).
(81) Onychodactylus tsukubaensis (Tsukuba clawed salamander).
(82) Onychodactylus zhangyapingi (Jilin Zhaoni).
(83) Onychodactylus zhaoermii (Liaoning).
(84) Paramesotriton caudopunctatus (spot-tailed warty newt).
(85) Paramesotriton chinensis (Chinese warty newt).
(86) Paramesotriton deloustali (no common name).
(87) Paramesotriton fuzhongensis (no common name).
(88) Paramesotriton guanxiensis (Guangxi warty newt).
(89) Paramesotriton hongkongensis (no common name).
(90) Paramesotriton labiatus (spotless stout newt).
(91) Paramesotriton longliensis (no common name).
(92) Paramesotriton maolanensis (no common name).
(93) Paramesotriton qixilingensis (no common name).
(94) Paramesotriton wulingensis (no common name).
(95) Paramesotriton yunwuensis (no common name).
(96) Paramesotriton zhijinensis (no common name).
(97) Plethodon ainsworthi (Catahoula salamander, bay springs salamander).
(98) Plethodon albagula (western slimy salamander).
(99) Plethodon amplus (Blue Ridge gray-cheeked salamander).
(100) Plethodon angusticlavius (Ozark salamander, Ozark zigzag salamander).
(101) Plethodon asupak (Scott Bar salamander).
(102) Plethodon aureolus (Tellico salamander).
(103) Plethodon caddoensis (Caddo Mountain salamander).
(104) Plethodon chattahoochee (Chattahoochee slimy salamander).
(105) Plethodon cheoah (Cheoah bald salamander).
(106) Plethodon chlorobryonis (Atlantic Coast slimy salamander).
(107) Plethodon cinereus (eastern red-backed salamander, redback salamander, salamandre
rayťe, red-backed salamander).
(108) Plethodon cylindraceus (white-spotted slimy salamander).
(109) Plethodon dorsalis (zigzag salamander, northern zigzag salamander). (110) Plethodon dunni (Dunnís salamander).
(111) Plethodon electromorphus (northern ravine salamander).
(112) Plethodon elongatus (Del Norte salamander).
(113) Plethodon fourchensis (Fourche Mountain salamander).
(114) Plethodon glutinosus (slimy salamander, northern slimy salamander).
(115) Plethodon grobmani (southeastern slimy salamander).
(116) Plethodon hoffmani (valley and ridge salamander).
(117) Plethodon hubrichti (Peaks of Otter salamander).
(118) Plethodon idahoensis (Coeur díAlene salamander).
(119) Plethodon jordani (Appalachian salamander, red-cheeked salamander, Jordan's
salamander).
(120) Plethodon kentucki (Kentucky salamander, Cumberland Plateau salamander).
(121) Plethodon kiamichi (Kiamichi slimy salamander).
(122) Plethodon kisatchie (Louisiana slimy salamander).
(123) Plethodon larselli (Larch Mountain salamander).
(124) Plethodon meridianus (South Mountain gray-cheeked salamander, southern gray-cheeked
salamander).
(125) Plethodon metcalfi (southern gray-cheeked salamander).
(126) Plethodon mississippi (Mississippi slimy salamander).
(127) Plethodon montanus (northern gray-cheeked salamander).
(128) Plethodon neomexicanus (Jemez Mountains salamander).
(129) Plethodon nettingi (Cheat Mountain salamander).
(130) Plethodon ocmulgee (Ocmulgee slimy salamander).
(131) Plethodon ouachitae (Rich Mountain salamander).
(132) Plethodon petraeus (Pigeon Mountain salamander).
(133) Plethodon punctatus (white-spotted salamander, cow knob salamander).
(134) Plethodon richmondi (southern ravine salamander, ravine salamander).
(135) Plethodon savannah (Savannah slimy salamander).
(136) Plethodon sequoyah (Sequoyah slimy salamander).
(137) Plethodon serratus (southern red-backed salamander).
(138) Plethodon shenandoah (Shenandoah salamander).
(139) Plethodon sherando (Big Levels salamander).
(140) Plethodon shermani (red-legged salamander).
(141) Plethodon stormi (Siskiyou Mountains salamander).
(142) Plethodon teyahalee (Southern Appalachian salamander).
(143) Plethodon vandykei (Van Dykeís salamander).
(144) Plethodon variolatus (South Carolina slimy salamander).
(145) Plethodon vehiculum (western red-backed salamander).
(146) Plethodon ventralis (southern zigzag salamander).
(147) Plethodon virginia (Shenandoah Mountain salamander).
(148) Plethodon websteri (Websterís salamander).
(149) Plethodon wehrlei (Wehrleís salamander).
(150) Plethodon welleri (Wellerís salamander).
(151) Plethodon yonahlossee (Yonahlossee salamander).
(152) Pleurodeles nebulosus (no common name).
(153) Pleurodeles poireti (Algerian newt).
(154) Pleurodeles waltl (Spanish newt).
(155) Salamandra algira (Algerian salamander).
(156) Salamandra atra (alpine salamander).
(157) Salamandra corsica (Corsican fire salamander).
(158) Salamandra infraimmaculata (no common name).
(159) Salamandra lanzai (Lanzaís alpine salamander, Salamandra di Lanza).
(160) Salamandra salamandra (fire salamander).
(161) Salamandrella keyserlingii (Siberian newt).
(162) Salamandrella tridactyla (no common name).
(163) Salamandrina perspicillata (northern spectacled salamander).
(164) Salamandrina terdigitata (southern spectacled salamander).
(165) Siren intermedia (lesser siren).
(166) Siren lacertina (greater siren).
(167) Taricha granulosa (rough-skinned newt).
(168) Taricha rivularis (red-bellied newt).
(169) Taricha sierrae (Sierra newt).
(170) Taricha torosa (California newt).
(171) Triturus carnifex (Italian crested newt).
(172) Triturus cristatus (great crested newt).
(173) Triturus dobrogicus (Danube crested newt).
(174) Triturus hongkongensis (no common name)
(175) Triturus ivanbureschi (Balkan-Anatolian crested newt, Bureschís crested newt)
(176) Triturus karelinii (Southern crested newt).
(177) Triturus macedonicus (no common name).
(178) Triturus marmoratus (marbled newt).
(179) Triturus pygmaeus (pygmy marbled newt).
(180) Triturus vittatus (no common name).
(181) Tylototriton anguliceps (angular-headed newt).
(182) Tylototriton asperrimus (black knobby newt).
(183) Tylototriton broadoridgus (no common name).
(184) Tylototriton dabienicus (no common name).
(185) Tylototriton daweishanensis (no common name).
(186) Tylototriton hainanensis (Hainan knobby newt).
(187) Tylototriton kweichowensis (red-tailed knobby newt).
(188) Tylototriton liuyangensis (no common name).
(189) Tylototriton lizhenchangi (Mangshan crocodile newt).
(190) Tylototriton notialis (no common name).
(191) Tylototriton panhai (no common name).
(192) Tylototriton pseudoverrucosus (southern Sichuan crocodile newt).
(193) Tylototriton shanjing (Yunnan newt).
(194) Tylototriton shanorum (no common name).
(195) Tylototriton taliangensis (Thailand newt).
(196) Tylototriton uyenoi (no common name).
(197) Tylototriton verrucosus (Himalayan newt).
(198) Tylototriton vietnamensis (no common name).
(199) Tylototriton wenxianensis (Wenxian knobby newt).
(200) Tylototriton yangi (Tiannan crocodile newt).
(201) Tylototriton ziegleri (Zieglerís crocodile newt).
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Old 12th January 2016   #2 (permalink)
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Default re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

I just got this too, Tim. I was about to message you when I saw this posted. Will you be able to get a work-around if you can demonstrate chitrid-free status in your collection?

Injurious Wildlife: Listing Salamanders as Injurious Due to Risk of Salamander Chytrid Fungus

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Old 12th January 2016   #3 (permalink)
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Default re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

I read through the draft proposal and didn't see a mention of any exemptions for negative test results. This would be an excellent thing to propose while they are still accepting comments. Glad to see something being done but this sort of sweeping, reactionary legislation is not what I was hoping for.
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Old 12th January 2016   #4 (permalink)
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Default re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

I would hope that a permitting system could be set up based on negative test results and a lack of any future imports. People should definitely begin working on well thought out arguments and revisions to these regulations to submit during the public comment period.

Luckily I only have 2 species on the list in my collection and they are both Plethodon species that have never bred for me.
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Old 12th January 2016   #5 (permalink)
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Default re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

Well, this rule effectively ends my participation in the hobby I don't have anything that isn't on the list.
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Old 12th January 2016   #6 (permalink)
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Default re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

Isn't that list just about everything that can be captive bred, aside from axolotls and a handful of rare exceptions?
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Old 12th January 2016   #7 (permalink)
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Default re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

It will limit many interstate sales and nearly stop imports.
As the proposal stands their is no exemption for chytrid free certification. The proposal states that tests are not reliable. Even if they would consider them to be reliable it would be cost prohibitive. When I tested my collection it took me nearly a day. I had about 2000.00 worth of tests done at the going rate of 15.00 per test for free as part of a research project. I did the swabbing myself. Sending in swabs and not having a professional do take the samples would be of no value.
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Old 12th January 2016   #8 (permalink)
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Default re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

Quote:
Originally Posted by onetwentysix View Post
Isn't that list just about everything that can be captive bred, aside from axolotls and a handful of rare exceptions?
I have a lot of exceptions, but nothing that is as durable for a new hobbyist as the species on that list.
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Old 12th January 2016   #9 (permalink)
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Default re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

When you are dumping your salamanders because interstate sales will potentially be banned please consider me. I'm very interested in purchasing animals for legal sale in Pennsylvania.
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Old 12th January 2016   #10 (permalink)
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Default re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

This is terrible news for the hobby.
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Old 12th January 2016   #11 (permalink)
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Default re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

I'm still processing this...

Ironically, I was just settling up my basement to rear this year's Noto larvae when I read the news. Now I'm reconsidering raising any at all.
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Old 12th January 2016   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sweeping ban on salamander trade/transoportation in effect this month

Wow, that's a killer blow for the US hobby! Was this level of prohibition expected?

I guess that for many breeders in the US it will no longer be feasible to raise CB animals in large numbers as demand in state will be fairly limited.
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Old 12th January 2016   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

To those of you thinking that someone should do something about this, each of us are the someones. The salamander and newt hobby is much smaller than the reptile and frog hobbies. We are the ones who need to make vigorous comments on this using the USFWS' comment process. Now is the time to step up. I don't think anyone disagrees with banning imports of potentially infected species. However, the Interstate travel ban effectively ends our hobby. The other herpetile interests don't realize that this sets real precedent for banning anything and everything from interstate transport, effectively ending the keeping of the whatever is chosen.

Next it could be frogs and reptiles. Pick a disease (a Ranavirus strain for example).

No one else is going to change this - you, the person reading this, have to do something.
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Old 12th January 2016   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

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Originally Posted by slowfoot View Post
I'm still processing this...

Ironically, I was just settling up my basement to rear this year's Noto larvae when I read the news. Now I'm reconsidering raising any at all.
I have a bunch of T. torosa that I've been trying to sell, and I've been working to get a bunch of granulosa and rivularis to breed and had been really optimistic for this year, now I don't know if I should; the only salamanders I've ever sold in-state were some sirens I'd bred, to a guy who ironically lived about twenty minutes from where I collected the adults.

I'm all for the increased protection; it would be a disaster if Bsal got here, but since Bsal isn't here, I don't see why they can't just stop imports.

The worst part is I really wanted to get back into some of the European species, and now I'll never be able to keep them again.

It's also going to put increased pressure on wild collection of Ambystoma; they're one of the more frequently collected genera available as WC in the pet trade, and now there are significantly fewer CB alternatives.

Last edited by onetwentysix; 12th January 2016 at 18:06. Reason: Added line to end rather than new post
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Old 12th January 2016   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

I'm still trying to digest this. My current understanding is that the ban goes into effect Jan 28 2016. It could possibly be rescinded after the comment period. Is that your understanding?
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Old 12th January 2016   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

They could change anything they like, but only if there are people pushing them to - this is write/contact-your-congress-people-time.
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Old 12th January 2016   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

Can someone draft a letter with the issue summarized and some kind of counter proposal, that knows the issue and the vocabulary well, and we can send our own versions of it? And to whom (Congress/representatives or senators, i.e. who is involved in this proposal?) Names and addresses?
Then we can all get writing and emailing.


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Old 12th January 2016   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

So, how would I state my opinion on this? All there are PDFs, so can nothing be done about it? Are they literally just telling us, or can we voice our opinions?
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Old 12th January 2016   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

I checked the federal register and the document does not appear to have been posted for public comment submissions yet. After re-reading the proposal I think it will be posted tomorrow. The website is not great but here it is:

https://www.federalregister.gov

A draft letter would be a great idea. Someone with science credentials and knowledge of both sides would be ideal. I will be submitting a comment regardless of whether someone writes a draft or not.
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Old 12th January 2016   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

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Originally Posted by Otterwoman View Post
Can someone draft a letter with the issue summarized and some kind of counter proposal, that knows the issue and the vocabulary well, and we can send our own versions of it? And to whom (Congress/representatives or senators, i.e. who is involved in this proposal?)
I'm talking with Tim and others about this. I hope to have something soon.

And to all you Caudata lurkers reading this, you can't afford to keep lurking any more. Time to help.
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