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US List of species & breeders by state

This is a discussion on US List of species & breeders by state within the Laws/Legality and Ethics forums, part of the Herpetological Science & Politics category; Given the current political climate with our hobby and the interstate ban it seems like now is an excellent time ...

Laws/Legality and Ethics Discussion of the laws affecting herpetology around the world. Species legalities in different jurisdictions, import/export of animals, the legalities of species collection and the ethical considerations of all of the above.

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  • 5 Post By otolith
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Old 15th January 2016   #1 (permalink)
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Default US List of species & breeders by state

Given the current political climate with our hobby and the interstate ban it seems like now is an excellent time to compile a list of keepers by state and the species they keep. This way we can keep a sort of ongoing register much like keepers in Europe have for the past two decades to make the most out of exchanging animals and information with people in state. Any ideas on how to go about it? I believe there have been similar threads in the past but having a more organized published register seems invaluable now. A list published on caudataculture, a google doc or spreadsheet are what come to mind off the top of my head. Input and help in making this happen much appreciated!
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Old 15th January 2016   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

If we register our newts the government will know where to come when they take them all away.




O.k. I was just making fun of the NRA.

You have a good idea. We had a list like that on caudataculture. I plan to enhance my collection a little. I'll continue selling at reptile shows in Pa. and probably ship to zoos, museums, and researchers if they get permits.
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Old 15th January 2016   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

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Originally Posted by michael View Post
If we register our newts the government will know where to come when they take them all away.




O.k. I was just making fun of the NRA.

You have a good idea. We had a list like that on caudataculture. I plan to enhance my collection a little. I'll continue selling at reptile shows in Pa. and probably ship to zoos, museums, and researchers if they get permits.
Good one Michael!!!!
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Old 15th January 2016   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

Well, they WOULD potentially know what you had pre- and post- ban, although not where it was obtained.
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Old 19th January 2016   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

I really wish a database existed! I'd love to know if there are any breeders in NJ for future reference.
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Old 19th January 2016   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

An open google spread sheet would work great. Question is mainly how to organize it.

I suppose a column for species, ~number, Origin (WC, CB, Unknown) state, person, contact, (though maybe you don't want contact.), caudata.org ID

Then you could easily sort by species and tabulate amounts. Perhaps people could fudge data, but would they. it's kind of a wiki-like strategy.
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Old 19th January 2016   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

I like the idea of this too, but I actually am concerned with this. If they decide to take the law one step further and ban keeping salamanders altogether, this would be an easy way for the government to find targets. I live in Tennessee and after turtles were banned the Tennessee Fish and Wildlife Commission starting cracking down and confiscating turtles. A guy I know has a friend that lost his turtles because someone reported him and they came and took his turtles and they are now at the zoo. Not saying it is a concern right now, but maybe in the future. We could just do Usernames on the list and state. If someone is interested they could message them and ask.
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Old 19th January 2016   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

In the past, there were various iterations of a "registry" idea. And the Treewalkers group took the registry idea to a whole new level, but ultimately didn't succeed with it. Most people don't want to participate or don't want the details of their collection to be publicly viewable.

This forum software has something called Groups, and also Social Groups. I think the Social Groups allow people to have private discussions just among the group. I think anyone can create a social group. To find it, go to your PM and look in the left column. Perhaps this would work for finding and communicating with people within a specific state?
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Old 20th January 2016   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

I will gladly use my user name here and state. That's is it. No way am I telling the world what I have. If your in my state and interested, then we can either meet or talk on the phone about what your interested in. I'll gladly do only state and user name.
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Old 20th January 2016   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

I definitely think only UNs and state should be listed for the breeders safety.
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Old 21st January 2016   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

Let's say you list a species you keep, then sell it and buy another group 5 years later while in another state, I'd be concerned that some overzealous conservation officer could use it as evidence that you moved them across state lines. I will admit it's a bit of a stretch but we do have enemies and people who just don't want us keeping these animals and would do anything in their power to try to put you away.
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Old 26th January 2016   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

Maybe we could set up a state-specific section of this website so that members can trade/sell within states? I know a lot of other hobbyist forums have something similar for local trades and such. Might not be too useful for people in remote areas (like me ) but could be very useful to those in states with bigger populations. Just a thought...
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Old 26th January 2016   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael View Post
If we register our newts the government will know where to come when they take them all away.
You may have been joking about that, but I don't think it would be too crazy to use caution, anything is possible.

As far as a registry, people could always just type which state they're in when they post in the "for sale" or "wanted" sections. Although if any of your have been keeping an eye on the "for sale" section in the US for the last couple years you already know that the title of that section of the forum may as well be changed to the "Axolotls and axolotl eggs for sale" section.

Most of the hardcore salamander enthusiasts I know here in the states are just about as reclusive as the animals they keep and can't be expected to participate in a state by state registry because they don't want to be bothered. This especially holds true for the last two weeks when everyone and their grandmother decided to hop on the injurious salamander species bandwagon and buy up whatever species they could get their grubby little hands on, even though they showed absolutely no interest in the animals prior to hearing about the ban and have no experience or knowledge of basic care for the animals that they so urgently "needed" to buy. When I say salamander enthusiasts I'm of course referring to REAL salamander enthusiasts, not the countless crazy axolotl fanatics and self proclaimed experts who have been keeping their axolotls for almost a year and know what's best for everyone else's animals...
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Old 26th January 2016   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

Perhaps if we do this registry, those that add their names to the list can also add a statement that reads something along the lines of "Please do not contact this member for unsolicited requests for animals." We could also make it a "reportable offence" to admin for those members who disregard this statement; such offenses could result in a brief ban or some other form of reprimand.

Though I really don't want the dad-gum government to come take all my newts away... Maybe we could also add a statement that reads "Attention Government Entities: Please do not use this list against us to take away our newts" :)
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Old 26th January 2016   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

There are many reasons why people will not participate in a such a list, many already mentioned.
Ultimately though there is no real need for such a list.
The classifieds will still be available.
It will be wise for the poster of the ads to list what state they are in so they don't get a million emails asking about this. There are already separate categories in the classifieds for people residing in different countries for exactly this reason. From now on you just have to only pay attention to the ads posted in your state.
I really don't mean to be a bubble burster, but a list of people-who-have-what doesn't really serve much purpose (unless you are the type that likes to brag about the elite animals you have). If you want to buy something, watch the classifieds or post wanted ads for your state. If you want to talk with people who own the animals you are interested in or have, that is what this forum is for!
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Old 26th January 2016   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

I think people should just be better about creating and joining groups on this site for their state. I'm gonna check to see if there's a Missouri one right now. I don't think there is, so I'll make one if there isn't.
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Old 27th January 2016   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: US List of species & breeders by state

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaterPotater View Post
I think people should just be better about creating and joining groups on this site for their state. I'm gonna check to see if there's a Missouri one right now. I don't think there is, so I'll make one if there isn't.
If you make one, let us know.
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