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USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

This is a discussion on USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER within the Laws/Legality and Ethics forums, part of the Herpetological Science & Politics category; Originally Posted by michael USARK advises against shipping at this time.. I still say, Ship Now. Because who is enforcing ...

Laws/Legality and Ethics Discussion of the laws affecting herpetology around the world. Species legalities in different jurisdictions, import/export of animals, the legalities of species collection and the ethical considerations of all of the above.

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Old 18th April 2017   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael View Post
USARK advises against shipping at this time..
I still say, Ship Now. Because who is enforcing anything ? No one. There's no valid rule against shipping.

Anyone have any male N. dorsalis?



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Old 20th April 2017   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

Newsweek follow-up article on ban after the Lacey Act ruling on April 7th 2017:
(last year's article on the ban is here):

Landmark Case Paves Way for Animals Like Pythons to Be Traded in U.S.



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Old 20th April 2017   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

News article in the journal "Science" on latest B.sal news: A deadly salamander disease just got a lot scarier | Science | AAAS

My own thoughts after reading it:

It is missing some current positive information on the fight against this disease, making it a very alarmist/doom-laden article. But fear sells media.

It sounds like (from the end of the article) Joe Mendelson of Zoo Atlanta wants to ban every amphibian coming into the US. In principle, I can see merit to that (that is the current situation with hundreds of salamander species anyhow). But what about the B.sal carrying goose described in the research? Shouldn't we ban geese then? Seriously though, what is reasonable and where would it end?

And then it's important to remember the only known samples of B.sal in the US were imported by US researchers. Remember that studies showed that US researchers carried B.d. to new populations of amphibians in California. And wiped them out. Perhaps we should also ban the importation of diseases into the US for research if they're not already here.



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Old 26th April 2017   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

Sadly you are right, fear sells and sells big. I read the whole article and thought, "Well what do they want to do?" Sure you could ban any frog, toad or newt from coming into the US but what are you going to do about the spores that get on the feet of water birds? How are you going to stop every goose, heron and sandpiper from entering their breeding grounds in the US? Shoot them? Put up a 10-mile tall net/wall?
All I got from the article was doom and gloom to stoke the fears of any layman that read the article. It was like reading an article to ready us for a war.
I`m glad the information about this terrible blight is getting out there but it seems the info getting out is cherry picked, not the whole picture.
Josh



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Old 26th April 2017   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
News article in the journal "Science" on latest B.sal news: A deadly salamander disease just got a lot scarier | Science | AAAS

My own thoughts after reading it:

It is missing some current positive information on the fight against this disease, making it a very alarmist/doom-laden article. But fear sells media.

It sounds like (from the end of the article) Joe Mendelson of Zoo Atlanta wants to ban every amphibian coming into the US. In principle, I can see merit to that (that is the current situation with hundreds of salamander species anyhow). But what about the B.sal carrying goose described in the research? Shouldn't we ban geese then? Seriously though, what is reasonable and where would it end?

And then it's important to remember the only known samples of B.sal in the US were imported by US researchers. Remember that studies showed that US researchers carried B.d. to new populations of amphibians in California. And wiped them out. Perhaps we should also ban the importation of diseases into the US for research if they're not already here.
John,
I have not heard the story of the researchers that carried B.d. to new populations in Ca and wiped those populations out! If you could relay the story to me would be great. That should have been in the article but I`m sure they just forgot. Cough-bull-cough...
Josh



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Old 28th April 2017   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

I guess I should learn how to ship soon, then.

I am also curious to hear how researchers brought Bsal to California. If you could post some sources of the story as well, that would be awesome.



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Old 29th April 2017   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

I think two things are being confused here:
1) B.dendrobatidis being inadvertently moved around the Americas [that is, "into California"] on the nets, boots, etc of scientists [or hunters, fishermen, hikers, hobbyists]. While there may be some specific instance of this, the earliest evidence I have heard of this fungus in the wild was 60-70 years in Quebec. Additionally, there seem to be strains native and endemic to the Americas [Brazil at least]. It's been spreading in the wild in North America for decades.
2) B.salamandrivorans was imported for research [not specifically to California, and not into the wild. I haven't anything new about that, but have yet to review this paper.

I think, realistically, we should have learned by now that the diseases we should be most concerned about aren't the ones we know about, but those we haven't discovered. The epidemics and disasters are almost always NEW diseases [or newly discovered]. The only effective solution is to ban ALL human transport of living organisms between continents and other isolated land masses. That includes people. Unpopular and unrealistic, but the only one which would be effective.



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Old 3rd May 2017   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

does this mean that when I move to California in a year I can legally bring my axolotls with me?



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Old 4th May 2017   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

Well, axies were already previously illegal in CA.



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Old 4th May 2017   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

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does this mean that when I move to California in a year I can legally bring my axolotls with me?
The Lawsuit was just about the Lacey act. The interstate shipping ban will probably be lifted. State and local laws are still valid.



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Old 4th May 2017   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

Cool, to read this news



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Old 24th June 2017   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: USARK Lawsuit-THE BAN IS OVER

Update and clarification for anyone still concerned:
  • The deadline passed at the beginning of June 2017 for USFWS to appeal the District Court of Appeals ruling that they couldn't apply the Lacey Act to restricting interstate transport of newts and salamanders (or any animal for that matter).
  • With the exception of offshore states, protectorates and the District of Columbia (Washington DC), you can ship and receive newt and salamander species that USFWS had tried to prohibit. Legally, you always could because the USFWS was misapplying the Lacey Act, but the District Court of Appeals ruling made that official.
  • The importation to the US of the prohibited species is still prohibited. This means that if a species isn't currently in the US then you are out of luck unless the USFWS rule changes in the future.
  • It seems likely that USFWS will try to get US politicians to implement a new law to allow the original ban to go into place. This process will take time, if it happens at all, but plan accordingly.
  • It is worth noting that this disease (Bsal) has yet to be found in the hobby or the trade in the USA. In fact it is only known to occur in the research groups who imported it for study, some of whom were directly lobbying for the ban. Sad irony.



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Last edited by Otterwoman; 25th June 2017 at 09:26. Reason: Updated to include info on future law
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