The longest running Amphibian Community on the Internet.

Tags Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Caudata.org Store


Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

This is a discussion on Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K within the Crocodile Newts (Tylototriton & Echinotriton)... forums, part of the Species, Genus & Family Discussions category; I am very curious , Is there anyone in the U.K that has bred any Tylototriton species other than Verrucosus ...

Crocodile Newts (Tylototriton & Echinotriton)... Two popular genera of Asian newts, the crocodile newts are diverse of habit, habitat, and appearance. The Mandarin or Emperor Newt, Tylototriton shanjing, is highly sought after.

Like Tree73Likes


Reply

 

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 27th November 2014   #1 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 507
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: mr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.org
Default Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

I am very curious , Is there anyone in the U.K that has bred any Tylototriton species other than Verrucosus since 2013 ?
I ask because I don't see any 2013/14 CB specimens other than Verrucosus in the hobby anymore.Have the Shanjing and kweichowensis breeders of past fizzled out?
All recent CB specimens I've seen or been offered have been imported from Europe
I hope their are some breeders still active,(even if secretive)



mr cyclone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2014   #2 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Chinadog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 41
Posts: 2,556
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

That's how it goes sometimes isn't it. Breeding a particular species once, then moving on to the next one is fair enough, but it does little to establish a decent head of animals breeding regularly in captivity. To me, truly succeeding with a species means over multiple generations, not just F1 babies. I often wonder how many species would have a long term future in the hobby if the imports of WC stuff were suddenly stopped.



Chinadog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2014   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 206
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 1
Rep: JM29 has given good advice and informationJM29 has given good advice and informationJM29 has given good advice and information
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

In my opinion, to have a long term captive future, a given species must be managed by a group of owners who make exchanges together and regularly have variously aged specimens.
Too many people manage breeding during several years, get rid of the youngs and then have problems with their finally old animals.



JM29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2014   #4 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 507
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: mr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.org
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

At the moment Tylototriton WC still have demand ,I'm hopefull someone will reintroduce a UK CB of some sort



mr cyclone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2014   #5 (permalink)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 32
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinadog View Post
I often wonder how many species would have a long term future in the hobby if the imports of WC stuff were suddenly stopped.
Me too, and i've heard it used as an excuse to continue promoting the WC market, which is simply missing the point entirely.
The key word is certainly the one JM used, management. Captive populations should and could be managed much better. Done properly, through colaboration among hobbyists and applying a bit of sense, steps could be taken to try and secure the future of a large variety of caudate populations in captivity.
Unfortunately that's currently a tiny fraction of the total volume of breeding that occurs, which is not doing captive populations any favours.



__________________
Please become acquainted with the forum rules.

Useful Links: Caudata Culture | Species Accounts | Care Articles | Newt and Salamander FAQs | Axolotl.org | Axolotl FAQs | Forum Functions.


Non Timetis Messor.
Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2014   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 206
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 1
Rep: JM29 has given good advice and informationJM29 has given good advice and informationJM29 has given good advice and information
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

Management, some rules :

A wild isolated population without any particular monitoring must contain several hundred individuals to have a long term survival.
But there are cases of captive domestic animal populations successfully rescued, with a strict monitoring plan, with only 44 animals left. Even such a number is too large for a usual breeder. That's why it can only be done as a collaborative net between hobbyists.
A small group per hobbyist is better than a large "population". All the adults should have the same odds to contribute to the next generation. A sex-ratio of 1:1 is an ideal value.

A group of at least 3 (but ideally more) could manage that. Some very territorial species like those in the genus Paramesotriton or Pachytriton can hardly be housed in large numbers by any hobbyists and a collaboration among hobbyists is the only solution.

Of course, such collaborations for captive breeding must be made up as soon as animals are available.



JM29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014   #7 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Nationality:
Posts: 8
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: wrage is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

i know i had my name down on a waiting list for some shanjing from someone who had had success with them previously...not sure if its because he's had no more success or because i'm not particularly active on the forums but not heard anything since and its probably been 2 years now.



wrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2014   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 183
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: manderkeeper has started on the right path
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

I would love to see greater participation in captive populations. The benefits would be numerous 1) People would get a real feel for being a part of a community and helping to keep a legacy going. 2) It would be far more interesting to keep a line that you can trace back many generations and know the history of including where it originally came from and so on. 3) We'd have better linage and genetic information and could avoid severe inbreeding or inappropriate outcrossing 4) It would encourage people to get involved and see value in breeding rarer species if people received more creds for working with then as opposed to the current situation where most people want to work with something easy to product and sell. I am not against the commercial production of a small handful of species, I just wish more specialists could be created and more like minded people would come into the hobby and more importantly stay at the hobbyist level breeding specialty species for several decades.



manderkeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2014   #9 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 507
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: mr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.org
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

I'm hopeing that CB Tylototriton is still available in the UK. Two breeders I know of in the UK don't have their animals anymore,I believe a Zoo bred a number of shanjing last year but the animals didn't make it into the Hobby,Some are in zoo collections



mr cyclone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2014   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Stupot1610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Nationality:
Posts: 448
Gallery Images: 11
Comments: 4
Rep: Stupot1610 has shown reliable knowledgeStupot1610 has shown reliable knowledge
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

Dartfrog has some long term captive Tylototriton Yangi for sale: Amphibian Pricelist

Though, obviously not captive bred they are adults but it would appear that they haven't been bred from in the last couple of years because I check their price list regularly and they do not often have any Tylototriton species available.

Stuart



Stupot1610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2015   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 183
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: manderkeeper has started on the right path
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

I hope more resurface, they are cool animals and I wouldn't mind having some for myself!



manderkeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2015   #12 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 507
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: mr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.org
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

Tylototriton yangi 1.2 in the water area. Excitement and frustration
Attached Thumbnails
Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K-image.jpg  



mr cyclone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2015   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 255
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: Davo has given consistently good advice and informationDavo has given consistently good advice and informationDavo has given consistently good advice and information
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

Fingers crossed for you mate.



Davo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2015   #14 (permalink)
Field Herper
 
Niels D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 35
Posts: 1,213
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: Niels D is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgNiels D is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgNiels D is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgNiels D is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgNiels D is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgNiels D is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgNiels D is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgNiels D is considered an Authority at Caudata.org
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

Can't get those darn yangi's to breed here, but I'm patient.

Another problem is that a lot of people, including me, don't focus on only a couple of species but on a lot. This results in people having only one breeding group of each specie and if something goes wrong they have none. A lot of species have their own unofficial "ambassador", meaning that there's someone who has a lot of them and breeds them constantly, but if this (wo)man stops keeping them, there's no stable population left within the hobby. It would be nice if each specie would have three or more "ambassadors", but that's hard to realise.

We need more Englishmen to come to Gersfeld this year. Enough CB Tylototriton to make it worth while if you ask me. If not, then there's always enough German beer to compensate the losses!



__________________
P.r.schrenckii/L.laoensis/P.deloustali/P.chinensis/P.guangxiensis/Paramesotriton sp (Roter Warzenmolch)/S.lacertina/Triturus macedonicus/T.dobrogicus macrosoma/T. karelinii/C.e.popei/N.viridescens/P.waltl/C.orientalis
Niels D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2015   #15 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 507
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: mr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.org
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

I agree 100%
As for the yangi I have read that the area they originate from receives 50% of its annual rainfall in 1-2 months ( breeding season) hopping that rain here with the drop in pressure will also induce them. I've constructed a rain chamber so time will tell



mr cyclone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2015   #16 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Chinadog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 41
Posts: 2,556
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niels D View Post
Can't get those darn yangi's to breed here, but I'm patient.

Another problem is that a lot of people, including me, don't focus on only a couple of species but on a lot. This results in people having only one breeding group of each specie and if something goes wrong they have none. A lot of species have their own unofficial "ambassador", meaning that there's someone who has a lot of them and breeds them constantly, but if this (wo)man stops keeping them, there's no stable population left within the hobby. It would be nice if each specie would have three or more "ambassadors", but that's hard to realise.
Yes, you're spot on. As I said earlier in this thread, breeding one species once, then moving on to another does little to help create a sustainable captive population. The way things are at the moment I think even seemingly common species in the hobby would dry up pretty quickly if the imports were banned.
When I was a kid countless Cynops pyrrhogaster were sold in almost all petstores and garden centres, but after the exports from Japan were stopped they suddenly became almost impossible to find. I can imagine the same thing happening if the regular Chinese imports of Tylos, Paramesotriton, pachytriton etc were stopped, especially Pachytritom as nobody has ever managed to successfully raise the larvae to maturity as far as I can tell.
Our hobby isn't huge, so it wouldn't be impossible to pull together in a coherent way to keep the variety, otherwise we might just be left with Axolotls or P. waltls to choose from.



Chinadog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2015   #17 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 183
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: manderkeeper has started on the right path
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

Chinadog,

How can we get people to participate? I know the stud book idea was tried a time or two but fell of the map. We need regular communication to get people excited and make them feel a part of something. I think this is a really good idea to do and link us all together in UK, Europe, USA, etc. I am pretty sure some sort of salamander import ban will happen in the USA in the near future, but likely we can still export back to you guys without any issues.



manderkeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2015   #18 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 507
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: mr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgmr cyclone is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.org
Wink Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

I started this thread originally to see if there was anyone in the UK still breeding Tylototriton .
I am guilty of flooding the UK with verrucosus or now (Shanoram ) which are still not bred in great numbers, Or could be that the hobby itself is in decline in the UK.
I did have an attempt at several Tylototriton species (all CB ) with little success. I have zero intention of buying anymore WC animals because of my experience with them . And I hope to rectify the mistake this time. If they do breed this will be great I have space and experience with other newts to raise large robust offspring I will happily pass on to hobbyists who would like to help raise a strong CB population free of charge
Fingers crossed

Would also like to say thank you to Liam Reid who I am fortunate to have met , He helped with a sick female I had which has made a full recovery .
Gentleman of a bloke



mr cyclone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2015   #19 (permalink)
European Newt Group
 
jAfFa CaKe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 379
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 4
Rep: jAfFa CaKe has given good advice and informationjAfFa CaKe has given good advice and information
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

I really think we should take action with this. I'd be happy to help in a progam like this.



jAfFa CaKe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2015   #20 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Chinadog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 41
Posts: 2,556
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11Chinadog goes to 11
Default Re: Captive Breeding of Tylototriton in the U.K

Me too. I don't keep many species but they produce a steady supply of babies and I will be keeping them long term if that's any help. A list of members and the species they breed would be a start? It needs better organisation skills than I have to make a go of it, though.



Chinadog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

LinkBack
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads

Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Captive breeding of A. maculatum? ACF Mole Salamanders but not tigers or axolotls (Ambystomatids) 10 12th March 2014 15:30
For Sale: Captive Bred Tylototriton Verrucosus Otterwoman FS: USA 2 3rd October 2012 19:27
Captive breeding? dustin Tiger Salamander & Axolotl (Ambystoma tigrinum, A. mavortium spp, etc.) 11 13th October 2004 22:35
Legal Captive Breeding yago General Discussion & News from Members 17 30th September 2002 07:26


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:35.