Raising E. andersoni juvies

Well..I've been holding off on posting about this subject for a while.Mostly due to my paranoia about screwing up.Several people on this forum have been kind enough to share their experiences with this species in personal email and I thank them. But after 3+ months, I feel like I've been somewhat successful and am compelled to share my experience with this group that has helped me so much.

I'm raising 4 e.andersoni juves.I received them in mid Sept. when they were fairly new morphs from a breeder here in Canada. It was an unexpected thing and I really didn't know what I was getting into.But I decided to go for it anyway.

The breeder was very helpful. I followed his directions and put each one in a small 6x6 tupperware like container. In each micro - habitat I put cocoa fibre..moss and leaf litter.Holes were burnt in the lid for air.The tubs have been misted every second day..and are semi-moist.

Raising these critters has been a labour of love but not without its worries.For the first month or so they barely moved.I had to check several times to make sure they were alive..as they would never be out. They hid all the time. I had been told to feed them whiteworms and small pill bugs..but I had access to neither.So I spent hours digging in my garden for tiny earthworms.I also started up several fruit fly cultures that I seeded from my composter.

I've also tried phoenix worms...flightless F.F..pinhead crickets and yes..small pill bugs I've been culturing.

The whole experience has been rewarding but very labour intensive.

I finally saw two of them eat about a month ago.They both ate tiny earthworms.Oddly, they have all seemed far less enthused with the other stuff i've been putting in..especially F.F. larvae..although it seems some of it disappears and is likely eaten.Recently,the breeder who supplied the juves was kind enough to send me a whiteworm culture and it's going great.They LOVE whiteworms.Even the smallest and most shy of my 4 will move to grab a whiteworm.

Small worms of all kinds,in my experience so far, are the key food.

Growth has been slow, but 2 of the 4 have gotten obviously larger. The largest one is also the most active feeder and is usually out on the hunt when I turn on the lights. This one is also getting some of the knobs the mature andersoni has and is also getting much colour on its feet.

All my andersoni have been more active lately, perhaps because I've been running low on small earth worms and have had to cut back.Or maybe it's the cooler temps in the basement.It is about 58 to 60 f. were I keep them.

I've attached a couple pics taken several weeks back.They are still small,but are looking more like Japanese dragons every day.

GE




<font size="-2"><font color="ff0000">(Gord, I corrected the formatting of your post -- Tim)</font></font>

(Message edited by TJ on December 27, 2006)

wow Gord, your really lucky to have those...i'm most envious!!!
They're my favourite newts and are as rare as dragons teeth in this hobby...especially c/b!
Good luck with them and please keep us posted.

Nice pics Gord and thanks for sharing your experiences. I purchased a group of six myself several months back. I have yet to actually pick them up but plan on doing this in a few weeks. I look forward to working with them. Keep us posted.
Chip

[wouter]

Looks good Gord, don't worry, they're Echinotriton... That means almost no movement .

Good luck!

Gord,
I forgot to ask in my previous post - what temps are you keeping them at?
Chip

Foster:

I'm keeping them at about 60F..maybe on the cool side but they seem to be doing ok..and are eating.It sure isn't speeding up their growth any though.

GE

I just "feed them and forget them". They are like a watched pot which never boils. I haven't ever seen them eat either but eventually you notice growth-I think from egg to adult it took 2.5 to 3 years.I feed pinhead crickets and whiteworms.

Just dug up these pics of my andersoni that I took when fist I got them over 3 months ago.Looking at these shots again, I can see they have grown and fattened up quite a lot.The lighter grey one in these shots with the colourful feet is the same fat newt that has the nice feet in the first set of shots.He looked skinny here..but is the biggest and most unusually coloured of my 4. He/she is also the hunter.

The other pic is of the containers I keep the andersoni..and some juve p.caudopunctaus in.

Whoops..hit the wrong button and forgot the pics!





(Message edited by jennewt on January 17, 2007)

[Michael Shrom]

Good job Gord. Mine look about the same. They have given me a few anxious moments but I keep adding food and it keeps disapearing.

Update Jan 15:

I'm just back from a trip and sadly one of my echino has died. I'd suspected it was dead before I left 5 days ago. It was not moving and unresponsive when I picked it up (which I never usually do). But I left it in the container hoping it was just "playing dead."

It's dead.

Weird, as it was the best feeder and hunter of the bunch. The guy pictured with the pretty feet actually. My only hunch is that it was in a set up that was slightly wetter than the others. I'd always kept it that way and it seemed fine. But it was fat and looked good otherwise.I'm trying to be philosophical but obviously it's a major drag.

The rest seem fine. So far.

Puzzling.

Sorry to hear it, Gord, but these things happen sometimes. It's especially discouraging and bewildering when it's an apparently healthy animal.

Your idea that it could have been too damp seems like a possibility. But it seems like the dry leaves would provide the animals a good bit of variety in finding places of varied dryness to choose from.

Another remote possibility I would raise is the yellow moss, which looks like it could be sphagnum. Some of the dishes appear to have a different type of moss, more greenish? Sphagnum moss has a reputation for being acidic, and that can be a problem. I like the natural leaves that you use, but those can also vary in acidity. I believe that oak is supposed to be more acidic than some other trees. I think acidity isn't a very likely possibility, but perhaps worth a mention.

I wish you best of luck with the rest of them!

That's too bad Gord. Hopefully the others will continue to do well. I picked up my group several days ago. Today they all were eating in front of me (with one exception). I am thrilled with the opportunity to work with this species.
Chip

Thanks for your thoughts:

After some consideration, I've come to a couple conclusions:

The basement room where I've been raising all my juves likely got too cold over the past two weeks (we got into a winter deep freeze after a mild fall/early winter)and this shut them down. The room was in the low 50s when I came home from my trip. They had been much less active of late and I suspect they stopped feeding well,if at all.

I also changed over from ff maggots/phoenix worms/tiny earthworms to whiteworms, and they may have had a hard time adjusting. My supply of tiny earthworms dried up a month ago and that was the favoured food. I'm also concerned I may have kept them a bit too wet.

I've done a close look at all of the remaining three and the smallest one (never a good eater) is sadly, in rather bad shape. The second one is ok and the third looks quite good and robust.But so did the one that died.

At Christmas three of four were looking great.

I've moved all my juves (caudopunctatus included) to my office where it is about 15 degrees warmer F. and we'll see what happens. I've re-introduced some FF maggots and I have a red worm culture going. I plan to replace the old moss and leaves with new stuff as well.

Time will tell.

Please feel free to add insights.

GE

Gord, I've been using chopped juvenile nightcrawlers with good success. They should be able to take .25" segments with no problems, and the nightcrawlers, or "dillie worms" as my bait shop calls them, should be readily available. I usually feed the heads to my bigger newts and let the tails fully extend before chopping them up to feed my smaller newts. I'm not a big fan of redworms as many newts don't like the taste. I did collect a bunch of small leaf worms that I'm maintaining, hoping they'll reproduce, but I haven't seen any sign of offspring. Thankfully everything has grown to the point where they're eating the "dillie bites". Another nice thing about "dillie bites" is that they generally don't crawl away, so you can use a shallow food dish and monitor feeding over time without having to watch and wait. Just check the bowls every few hours to make sure that nothing spoils.