T. shanjing breeding success

[onetwentysix]

Time from egg to larva is around 3 weeks; they're starting to hatch now.

I don't have a photo of the whole setup; I could take one, but I've already started taking it apart so that I can put them in a much larger enclosure that they'll be living in permanently, at least until winter. It also leaked because I directed the shower head in the wrong direction, so there was too much water in it. Their permanent tank was in storage over the winter/spring for my move and I hadn't gotten it set up.

What they were in was a 47 liter (50 quart) rubbermaid bin with a locking top. The water section was a smaller plastic container buried in the cocofiber substrate, with a few plants and a cave-hide thing.

I kept them in the fridge all winter, feeding them every couple of weeks, and then took them out this spring. They didn't breed though, and remained adamant about laying, until I took their entire enclosure and put it in the shower with the lid slightly off. The shower was on cold and directed so that it wouldn't hit the enclosure and would just generate a lot of humidity. I simulated one hour rains a few times a day, and they laid after 2 days of this.


I also have to confirm the bad eggs in water. It's not the fact that they're laid in water that's a problem, but the water quality I think. All of my eggs were in water; most were in a large wide rubbermaid container with clean water, and the others were in a smaller container in the tank. All the eggs in the tank water died, unfortunately, assumedly due to the bad water quality. If there had been an airstone in there, I think they would have been fine; they were clearly developing pretty well.

[ajc]

There was footage on the BBC in the UK recently (Wild China series) of wild T. shanjing emerging from deep moss in response to heavy rain and getting ready to spawn. Most of the streams in the area seemed to be quite fact flowing, so I wouldn't have been surprised if they spawned in the moss or at the waters edge.

[Mark]

I saw this footage too. It certainly suggested that precipitation was a key factor to trigger emergence. I was surprised to see this fossorial behaviour; my shanjing never showed any inclination to burrow, even into moss. I wonder if the footage was filmed in the wild or if it was “re-created”. The animals looked wild. They lacked the plumpness one would associate with captive specimens.

The only time I’ve seen T.shanjing eggs was at Mark Staniszewski’s and his had gone to the trouble of sticking the vast majority of them on a cork bark wall well above the water line. Either they expect the water level to rise or the eggs develop better exposed to air.

Did anyone notice that T.shanjing made it back to species status on amphibiaweb? Would it be fair to imply the paper in this thread was discounted?

[Nathan050793]

What was the name of the episode with the T.shanjing footage? I'd be interested in trying to see that...

Edit: Found it. These newts look wild to me; I'd never heard anything about T.shanjing leaving "odor trails" before. It's a real treat to see clips like this, thanks BBC. Here's the link from youtube in case anybody else wants to see it, the newts are about halfway through the clip-

[John]

Originally Posted by Mark

I wonder if the footage was filmed in the wild or if it was “re-created”.

I think it was re-created. It would be interesting to see who is thanked in the credits list (seriously).

Originally Posted by Mark

The animals looked wild. They lacked the plumpness one would associate with captive specimens.

Or they were male, or they were recent captives.

Originally Posted by Mark

Did anyone notice that T.shanjing made it back to species status on amphibiaweb? Would it be fair to imply the paper in this thread was discounted?

I hadn't seen that - thanks for pointing it out. The acceptance of new scientific names is really down to what do the other authorities in the area think of the paper - do they start using the new name? Do they reference the paper in question (in a good way)?

Addendum: They still reference the paper in question at the bottom of the amphibiaweb account for shanjing.

[Azhael]

I think it´s re-created too. If you take a look at the moss, it looks like it´s been placed...definitely it didn´t grow there...

[Lasher]

Originally Posted by azhael

I think it´s re-created too. If you take a look at the moss, it looks like it´s been placed...definitely it didn´t grow there...

I used to grow alot of moss, I'd disagree - entirely possible its naturaly grown IMO. Young grown moss is easy to distinguish from something thats been setup but it can be difficult to tell with many layers of old established growth.
I'd agree the shots setup though.

Thanks for the link Nathan, I'd never seen that before. Some brilliant shots in that and the other parts, will keep those book marked for future reference/setup ideas.

[petro]

Several day,s ago I found again several eggs in the terrarium.
Again(this is really the last time)the eggs I did almost under water stopt
devolping and died!!!!
All the other ones were growing fast and nice and are near hatching now.
Next time I wil lett them were they are and bring them to the place I want
when they are near hatching.
Petro.

[petro]

Yesterday the last 10 of the egs hatched,the larve were only about 9mm.
The first larve were 1.5 cm,so much bigger.I,m wondering how much time
it will take before they are morfing,and specialy how big they will be.
The first larve are already 3 cm.
Petro

[petro]

I hat a big diseaster last week,because the box what standing with two on top broke.
They fall all three on the floor and because off that i lost a lot of larve.
After this terribel thing what happens I have still 24 larve left,á few litle ones(3.2 cm)
and a litle bigger(4.3 cm)
I keep them with 5 stks. in a box from 30 by 20 cm.
I have;I think also in de terrarium about 10 of them,but thy are only 1.3 cm.
Petro

[freves]

I was unfortunately unable to view the video. Very interesting about the extra humidity triggering egg laying. I mist all of my terrestrial enclosures daily with a hand mister but perhaps it's time to invest in one of those automatic systems.
Chip

[Nathan050793]

As stated, the previous video link no longer works, so I have re-posted it. Like before, the shanjing are about half way through the clip-

[freves]

Thanks for reposting the video. The moss looked natural enough to me however I am no expert. In any case it was nice to see habitat shots. The bats were also interesting.
Chip

[petro]

Again is one of my females laying eggs,on this moment!
Pointis that I think its the same as vijf weeks ago,but
i,m not sure.
Petro

[froggy]

With regards to the wild China video; it looks very real to me, but how would they be able to find a spot where 2 salamanders just happen to be hiding in the moss. I know they often spend a very long time filming something that is only a short bit of footage in the final edit, but still it would belucky to find and film such an emergence...

[John]

Originally Posted by froggy

With regards to the wild China video; it looks very real to me, but how would they be able to find a spot where 2 salamanders just happen to be hiding in the moss. I know they often spend a very long time filming something that is only a short bit of footage in the final edit, but still it would belucky to find and film such an emergence...

In response to that all I have to say is I look forward to exploring the Panamanian rainforest in Bristol (Mark's house).

[Mark]

Originally Posted by John

I look forward to exploring the Panamanian rainforest in Bristol (Mark's house).

Deforestation is a terrible thing - It looks more like a spare bedroom now.

Creating the tylo footage would not be particularly difficult in a studio setting. Sals crawling out of moss isn't exactly complex behaviour. A wildlife camera man's day rate is £500+ so you really would blow the budget if you sent one off into the forest to try capture the real deal (not to mention the lighting issues associated with dark forest floors). The newts featured look like wild specimens however. If any one has a copy of the credits I maybe able to find out more.

As an aside, the R (D).imitator set was partly constructed out of breeze blocks. Rather than dispose of them I recycled them into a raised wall pond project in the garden. It's quite fitting that the native frogs are now sitting in something built out of a frog film set.

[petro]

Today again eggs,i,m sure now that this time it,s a female who layed eggs several week's ago.
The one who laying yesterday i toke out!!!
Petro

[petro]

Oke,
My T.Shanjings are matamorphosing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Petro

[John]

Congratulations, Petro. By the way, the term is "metamorphosing" not "morphing".