OK, hynobiid basics here..

as you all should know by now i have added recently to my hynobids i keep -before i only had 2 h leechii, now i have the tokyoensis and the nigrensis (did i spell those right -well tokyo's and black's anyways...)

i am needing to know some basics here-as i cant read japanese to find the data. first - what is the life expectancy of hynobids? how long to reach sexual maturity? and how big do they get anyways??(species specific here) i have my 2 koreans and they have never passed 4 inches and have been with me for 5? years (maybe 4) and i believe they were adults when i got them. the photos tim has of the tokyos makes them look as if they will get to the size of spring sals (6-7 inches)-are they really that big as adults? and how about the black sals? thing is that all my animals came in at the same size (for each group) so i am wondering if they are not juvies but adults. my tokyos are about 4 inches and the blacks are 5 or 6 (dont have em with me to measure). does anyone else in the US keep the koreans-i am stuck with 2 females and that will get me nowhere.

[Tim Johnson]

The first thing I'd do is direct you to Mr. Kawamura's site, where he has the basic information about Japanese sals (though more in the Japanese version of the site than in the English one):

http://www.rieo.net/amph/index3.htm

I've been out on herping trips with this guy before and believe me, he really knows his salamanders! He doesn't speak much English though...

H.tokyoensis only reaches around 5 inches. H.nigrescens is considerably bigger. The biggest I'm aware of is Hynobius boulengeri, which gets to be over 8 inches! Onychodactylus japonicus also gets big, around 7. But I'd advise against relative beginners (including myself!) trying to keep either one of these two are they come from cool rivers and don't adjust well to captivity.

its odd-if you go to his siberian sal link it shows a Chioglossa lusitanica....still no data there on life spans. it strikes me as odd the vast differences in adult sizes. the black sals have over 4 inches variation in length and the tokyo's have a 40% variance in size. by the descriptions there it seems i have adult tokyos and blacks-but since the size range is great i might also have subadults. i like that odd picture of clear egg sacs. still any other help? could you ask some of the other keepers you know how long they have had theirs in captivity? perhaps people like henk could comment on how old theirs are and if they got them as adults or eggs.

[Tim Johnson]

Chioglossa lusitanica? Looks like a Salamandrella keyserlingii (Siberian salamander) to me. I don't see any reason to doubt him, especially as: 1) he's in Japan, 2) this is a native species, and 3) he really, really knows his stuff. But hey, I may be wrong...

As for life spans, I'm not even sure there's that much difference among various terrestrial salamanders (those that don't pack poison) in this regard, and I highly doubt that kind of info has been collected for Hynobius, except for some in captivity. Perhaps you'd be better off just trying to determine how long it takes them to reach sexual maturity or to reach their maximum size

ah yes-sorry-its the cross over for common names- i have heard of what he calls the Semirechensk Salamander as the siberian salamander (in ONE documentary). still im at work and this screen is dark so it does look like the Chioglossa lusitanica- i wasnt doubting his photos -just whether the link might be confused.

well im going to guess that since my animals fall within the size range that i do have WC adults and i will fatten them up and hope to breed them as soon as they are up to it. its a pity that the dunni's that were for sale at underground have been off listed-they were the size of a quarter-and i was pretty sure those were at least captive raised -their removal from the kingsnake site make me wonder if they died.....

Hai Paris well Hynobius dunni can get up to 17 years in nature. I think I still have animals from my original adult group (since I have put some of the offspring along in the same tank)
So these are already close to 10 years now. The retardatus are up to 8 years of age. But I have heard that some H. nebulosus with Mr R. Thorn lived far over 17 years ... I though it was into the 20's...

Unlucky for me I didn't get my hands on extra nigrescens.. I got three from a former exchange

Well Paris if you want dunni tell me, since I find those prices to be too ridicilous. I saw 80 usd for babies... which is sounidng comic to me since I am missing the opportunity to become a millionaire there ( i can easyly raise up to 500 a year if I wanted to... but I mostly stick up to some 100-200 ..).