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Can mudpuppies metamorphosize?

This is a discussion on Can mudpuppies metamorphosize? within the Large Aquatic Salamanders (Hellbenders/Cryptobranchids, Necturus, Siren, etc.) forums, part of the Species, Genus & Family Discussions category; Just to be clear, this is purely a question out of curiosity, not something I ever intend to attempt, but ...

Large Aquatic Salamanders (Hellbenders/Cryptobranchids, Necturus, Siren, etc.) This topic covers Cryptobranchids like the hellbender and Asian giant salamanders, as well as sirens, mud puppies, and amphiumas.

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Old 14th October 2015   #1 (permalink)
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Default Can mudpuppies metamorphosize?

Just to be clear, this is purely a question out of curiosity, not something I ever intend to attempt, but can mudpuppies be induced to metamorphosize, like axolotls? Alternatively, do they ever metamorphosize on their own? What about sirens? And do fully aquatic salamanders that do metamorphosize, like cryptobranchids or amphiumas, ever remain neotenous?



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Old 15th October 2015   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can mudpuppies metamorphosize?

I don't believe mudpuppies and sirens are neotenic at all, so there is no "metamorphosis" available.



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Old 15th October 2015   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can mudpuppies metamorphosize?

According to the following sources, mudpuppies are neotenic:
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Toronto Zoo | Mudpuppy
And according to this source, so are sirens (and, incidentally, amphiumas):
https://books.google.com/books?id=6l...otenic&f=false
Since these salamanders become adults with larval characteristics (gills, legs unable to bear weight on land), I'm not sure how they could not be neotenic. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the definition of neoteny.



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Old 15th October 2015   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can mudpuppies metamorphosize?

"If metamorphosis cannot even be induced by artificial means, as is the case with the olm ( Proteus anguinus ), scientists call it obligatory neoteny." Quote from Salamanders keeping and breeding, F. pasmans, H. Janssen, S. Bogaerts, M. Sparreboom.
I believe they are obligatory neotones, but i could be wrong.



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Old 15th October 2015   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can mudpuppies metamorphosize?

No they can not morph onto to land nor can they be induced to morph. Proteidae is a genus of true gilled salamanders. Even though not all species under Proteidae have external gills, some have internal gills. Hellbenders for example, they still have internal gills as adults hence the name Cryptobranchus branchus essentially meaning hidden gills.

Hope this helps.



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Old 16th October 2015   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can mudpuppies metamorphosize?

That is very interesting. I did not realized that many amphibians have internal gills, or that there were degrees of obligatory neoteny. Thanks for all of the information.



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Old 16th October 2015   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can mudpuppies metamorphosize?

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Originally Posted by schmiggle View Post
That is very interesting. I did not realized that many amphibians have internal gills, or that there were degrees of obligatory neoteny. Thanks for all of the information.
I was under the notion that if they cannot be induced to morph they were not neotenic, but apparently that is not the case.

Sorry if I confused anybody



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Old 18th October 2015   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can mudpuppies metamorphosize?

Nothing wrong with asking questions. Even if you research, you may not always find answers.



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Old 13th September 2017   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can mudpuppies metamorphosize?

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Originally Posted by Neotenic_Jaymes View Post
No they can not morph onto to land nor can they be induced to morph. Proteidae is a genus of true gilled salamanders. Even though not all species under Proteidae have external gills, some have internal gills. Hellbenders for example, they still have internal gills as adults hence the name Cryptobranchus branchus essentially meaning hidden gills.

Hope this helps.
Hellbenders are Cryptobranchidae, not Proteidae.



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