Outdoor Husbandry of Andrias sp.

[HG]

Hi everyone,

The two Andrias species have always enthralled ever since I saw my very first one. Far less enthralling, however, were and still are the usual husbandry conditions I have observed them living in; in Western and Chinese zoos and aquariums alike, small tanks, hardly big enough for the animal kept within and lacking any visual retreats appear to be common practice. Alas, there seem to be little to no serious plans in most zoos to assemble the few singular specimens for a mutual ex-situ breeding program-with the result that the breeding sucess of both Andrias species hasn't improved a lot (if at all) since the first successful hatch of the Japanese Giant Sal in Amsterdam Zoo over a century ago. In this regard, excluding possible serious & dedicated private owners (willing to participate and having the means to do so) due to the harsh CITES regulations might not have been the very best idea, too.
I'm more and more afraid that both Andrias species will not just disappear in the wild, but also from zoo collections in the not too distant future...

Anyway, all that grumbling and moaning is surely nothing new for most of you...

What I would like to know is: do you know of any outdoor husbandries of Andrias sp. specimen, and if so, how successful was/is the husbandry in terms of health, longevity and even breeding success?

So far, I have heard of only a few European zoos, among them Vivarium Darmstadt (currently keeping a Chinese giant Salamander in the outdoor moat of the Sulawesi Crested Macaque Exhibit) and Duisburg Zoo (kept a Chinese giant in a pond of the zoo's Chinese Garden for quite a while) having a more or less purposeful go at this option. And don't forget the unintended "residence" of an Andrias davidianus in the canalisation of Ulm, Germany...

I don't know whether the exhibit of the now dead Japanese Giant Salamander at National Zoo's Asia Trail was in-or outdoors; the zoolex article is somehow vague.
http://www.zoolex.org/zoolexcgi/view.py?id=966


Thanks in advance for any information, links etc. on behalf of this matter.

[Abrahm]

Welcome to the forum. We have quite a few members who know what is going on with zoos and their programs so hopefully someone can answer you. You may also try contacting the Cryptobranchid Interest Group.

I would imagine with all the spotlight time amphibians have been receiving that some zoo would be seriously working to breed Andrias.

Posts in this forum are moderated for members so if your post doesn't show up right away, that is why. Sorry for any inconvenience. I've deleted your other copies of this post.

[Foster Reves]

The Japanese giant at the National zoo was in an outdoor enclosure when I saw it a few years ago.
Chip

[aramcheck]

I suppose I did not need to post that, but have you looked at this thread, with Andrias japonicus photos from San Antonio Zoo . Also one of the posters on that threads in a zoo worker there, so you might want to get in touch with him.

Like Abrahm said, I would expect that with the rescent press coverage of amphibians, more zoos will be interested in captive breeding programmes, and I would agree that Andrias would be a good candidate for such a programme.

[HG]

@Abrahm: Thanks for the welcome and the link. Sorry for the copies.

@freves: Thanks.

@aramcheck: Thanks, did indeed look at this thread before posting. Would be great if he could post some data here; otherwise I might contact him directly.

There are indeed plans within the European zoo community to establish an ex-situ breeding program for Andrias davidianus, with Rotterdam Zoo overseeing and coordinating it. But so far, nothing serious has actually happened.
The US zoo population of A. japonicus seems to orginate from a single group sent to the USA from Asa Zoo in 1999; not the best base for a healthy ex-situ population to start from...

Based on zootierliste.de, ISIS.org (not always very reliable-quite a lot of zombie data) and my own experiences, the following zoos currently keep Andrias sp.:

Andrias davidianus:

Europe:
-Kolmården Zoo (Sweden)
-Rotterdam Zoo (The Netherlands)
-Haus des Meeres, Vienna (Austria)
-Zoo Schmiding (Austria)
-Berlin Aquarium
-Sea Star Aquarium, Coburg
-Vivarium Darmstadt
-Zoo Dresden
-Aquazoo Duesseldorf
-Vivarium Karlsruhe
-Stuttgart Zoo
-Aquarium Ulm (all: Germany)
USA:
-Cincinnati Zoo
-St. Louis Zoo
Asia:
-Ocean Park, Hong Kong
-Beijing Zoo/Aquarium
-Beijing Blue Zoo Aquarium
-Chengdu Zoo
-Shanghai Ocean Aquarium (all: China)
-> more in China, Japan, Korea ???

Andrias japonicus:

USA:
-Buffalo
-Cincinnati
-Detroit
-Omaha
-San Antonio
-Toledo ... Zoo

Asia:
-Asa Zoo
-Osaka Zoo
-Inokashira Park Zoo, Tokyo
-Tokyo Ueno Zoo
more in Japan...?

If any of the Japanese members know more-please post here. Thanks in advance!

[SalSA]

As far as I know, none of the Andrias exhibits in the US are outdoor. One reason could simply be the climate is either too cold or too hot in most places. Filtration and controlling water temperature is more of a challenge outside too. Asa Zoo (Hiroshima) has outdoor exhibits, but that is within the native range of the salamander. In fact, the exhibits are actually diverted mountain streams.

The exhibit at National Zoo was indoors. The viewing area was outside but the salamander was completely indoors. I was unaware it had died though. When did this happen?

I also vaguely remember a davidianus at Atlanta, but I could have been a hellbender...it has been many years since I've been there.

[taherman]

The davidianus at Atlanta was shipped to St. Louis, earlier this year I believe.

-Tim

[Will]

Originally Posted by SalSA

The exhibit at National Zoo was indoors. The viewing area was outside but the salamander was completely indoors. I was unaware it had died though. When did this happen?

I was at the National Zoo this past September and the exhibit was closed.

[HG]

CO Press: Giant salamander euthanized at National Zoo

@SalSA: In regard to some of the points you mentioned:

-filtration: the technical and financial aspects should indeed not be neglected; they limit the outdoor husbandry of several species in western zoos, too.
Yet there are literally thousands of private persons keeping their koi carps in crystal-clear outdoor ponds all year long, sparing no expenses to control all water parameters. And that with carps naturally preferring rather muddy water...
-temperature: there should be climatic midpoints between the mentioned extremes. Alas, I think both species might be more or less adaptable to not too extreme aberrations from their native environments. Think of the mentioned example of Darmstadt or even Ulm...

[SalSA]

HG...good points. This is coming from someone who takes care of both indoor and outdoor aquatic exhibits. The indoor ones are much easier because you can control all the aspects and make things more consistent. In South Texas we have weird weather. For example, it was 82 yesterday and mid-40s all day today. It also gets pretty hot during the summer. The other issue with keeping stuff outside are freeloaders. Who know what kind of wild amphibian will venture into the exhibit and transfer parasites to the salamanders. Not to mention possible predators like raptors and raccoons.

I'm sure an outdoor enclosure can be accomplished in a certain areas where the habitat is similar to their native range. However, the effort will be much greater than an indoor exhibit.

[HG]

@SalSA: Depending on species and locality, outdoor husbandry can indeed be more demanding.And of course indoor husbandry offers better control of several important aspects.

Yet there should be various areas in the world outside of South Texas where outdoor conditions are climate and water-wise quite similiar to the original habitat of and more appropriate for the two Andrias species. Whether the amount of work would consequently raise due to outdoor husbandry is debatable; I think that might differ locally, according to the given conditions, and people involved.

Transfer of diseases might be a problem, but that can also be true for indoor husbandry, with the keeper(s) or husbandry equipment serving as vectors.

There shouldn't be that many possible native "evildoers" aka predators around in most parts of, say, Europe, especially when it comes to adult specimens of GIANT salamanders. A heron might give it a go (or rather, a peck), but there are some means (that are already available for the mentioned koi carp owners...) that might help to decrease this risk.

There are certainly some disadvantages when it comes to outdoor husbandry; however, the benefits, among others often also health-wise (as observed in various species in zoos and private husbandry) should be considered and kept in mind. The results of the current indoor husbandry of both Andrias species in regard to establishing a stable ex-situ population haven't been that convincing, wheras Asa Zoo's outdoor husbandry seems to be more hopeful. Just as food for thought...