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Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

This is a discussion on Lesser sirens, lessons learnt within the Large Aquatic Salamanders (Hellbenders/Cryptobranchids, Necturus, Siren, etc.) forums, part of the Species, Genus & Family Discussions category; Ok guys over the last week i have observed some strange behaviour in my trio of lesser sirens (1.2.0) it ...

Large Aquatic Salamanders (Hellbenders/Cryptobranchids, Necturus, Siren, etc.) This topic covers Cryptobranchids like the hellbender and Asian giant salamanders, as well as sirens, mud puppies, and amphiumas.

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Old 8th January 2010   #1 (permalink)
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Default Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

Ok guys over the last week i have observed some strange behaviour in my trio of lesser sirens (1.2.0) it started as usual several weeks ago really with the male developing the massive muscles around the head, this was followed by the appearence of lacerations along the flanks of the two females, nothing strange here it's happened for the last three years but this year it was followed by a catastrophic power failiure which led to a drop in temperature in my amphib room down to 1.9 degrees C! i panicked but luckily every thing survived, then this monday the eggs started appearing. I've now got around 150 eggs that seem to have been layed by the larger of the two females over a period of three days, the oldest eggs now have 1cm long developing larvae inside. first query, does anyone know how long they will take to hatch?

so day four and tragedy hits, the smaller siren is killed by the male, which tore it to pieces when it strayed too close to the eggs! in fact the male seems reluctant to leave the 'nest' and attacks feeding tongs that are placed near the eggs! query two, is this degree of protective/parental care usual?

and finally what should i feed any possible hathlings?

thanks for any suggestions, i value the caudata collectives input and i'll try to post pics over the next two days.

thanks Ben



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Old 9th January 2010   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

I'm not sure if females generally brood their eggs, but I have found individuals with bite marks on them around the breeding season. I would remove the eggs just in case....



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Old 9th January 2010   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

I have no experience with sirens so can't add much I'm afraid. The care sheet alludes to possible egg guarding along with other territorial aggressiveness.

Caudata Culture Species Entry - Siren intermedia

Eggs hatch within 1.5 - 2.5 months. My guess is that the larvae can be raised just like any other larvae; tubifex, daphnia, bloodworms, white worms, mosquito larvae and other pond sweepings.

Congratulation on the eggs. As far as I know this is quite a rare event in captivity so keep us informed of their progress.

Thanks,
Mark



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Old 9th January 2010   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

Male Hellbenders guard their eggs...

He might be a little more violent than he might be in the wild because he is in a smaller space with other animals that would probably leave him well enough alone in the wild. Too bad about the loss but you should have a few young to replace it...



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Old 11th January 2010   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

well i've rapidly discovered how hard it is to photograph the eggs of an angry siren!! but here's a couple of the least blurry, will try again tomorrow, plus one of the angry male that attacked the lens as soon as i started trying to take pictures!

also watched the male tail fanning the eggs which is quite cool

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.



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Old 13th January 2010   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

quick update, the eggs started hatching today, 9 days after being laid!!! got about thirty out so far with more wriggling in the eggs :) veryhappy herper



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Old 14th January 2010   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

Congratulations! This is certainly NOT a common happening for siren keepers. Keep us posted, I've only ever seen a few pictures of siren larvae.



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Old 20th January 2010   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

Hi,

may I ask how you normally keep your sirens? I also have 5 (2,3) to care for, but they never bred. Last year the females laid some eggs, but ate them soon after that. Hope I will get some eggs someday too - so congratulations for you

Greetings
Sandy



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Old 22nd January 2010   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

Well i've had them for five years, they live in a 900mm (long) x 600mm (wide) x 400mm(high) glass aquarium filtered by a large internal filter. the tank is filled with dense clumps of Hornwort and java moss as well as a mass of bogwood roots. I do a 20% water change once a week and thats about it. For the last three winters the temp has dropped to about 10c but this year due to a power cut it dropped to 5.8c for one day and away they went. i've got about 50 young now and they are growing quick. next year i'll be trying again with a titanium chiller in a better controlled environment, and hopefully get some more accurate information. Will post more pics tomorrow

cheers
Ben



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Old 23rd January 2010   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

That`s nearly exactly the way I keep mine ^^ I put a lot of crushed ice in their tank last week and temperature dropped to 7C. Perhaps it's enough, found some eggs now like last year but i think they're not fertile keep waiting

I'm looking forward to hear of your youngsters

Greetings
Sandy



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Old 3rd February 2010   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

Something new about your Siren larvae?

Greetings



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Old 16th February 2010   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lesser sirens, lessons learnt

Hi,

just wanted to say that i found some Siren eggs (about 10) now that look fertile. But neither male nore female are attending those eggs. Would it be better to take them out of the tank?

Greetings and thanks for help!



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