N. v.v. breeding query, male wants to, females dont?

[Perry]

I have a trio of N. v. v. , the male is in full breeding regalia; huge tail, nuptial pads et al. He has been doing some major tail fanning and "dancing" at the ladies and been amplexing them off and on. I am worried about his constant advances stressing the females (both are still eating well and have plenty of hides) as they do not seem to be too receptive yet. During some of the amplexus sessions the male's cloaca opened and a large red object was visible but was never released/deposited. I assume this is a spermatophore but i could not find any photographs to confirm this.

I have considered installing a mesh tank divider so that the females will be in contact with the male and the hormones he releases but will not be stressed by the constant amplexus and to remove the divider if/when the females begin to show more interest. I am wondering if this is necassary or if I should just leave them to do their thing.

Do females undergo any visible changes when they are in breeding condition? Sorry for the questions but i could not find much helpful information by looking at previous threads. Any advice or info would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!

[Justin]

The only visible change the females go through (that I've noticed) is general plumpness. Instead of the divider you could always add more plants, like elodea, this will offer more visual barriers. The females of this species are quite used to the males advances and I wouldn't worry about stress too much unless he is amplexing them most of the day.

Spermatophores will be a white cone shaped object that is about the size of really fine gravel.

[Perry]

That makes me feel a little better, the amplexus for this species looks so brutal, the "strangle hold" is a bit unsettling the first few times you watch it. My tank bottom is a fine layer of sand, would a flat piece of slate improve the likelihood of spermatophore interception?

[Justin]

Honestly, I don't know if that would make a difference or not. Mine are housed on a sand/gravel substrate and she seems to pick it up just fine.

[Perry]

Found the first egg today! Only 1 so far, but there are so many plants today I am sure there must be more. Both females are huge so hopefully they will continue to lay in the coming weeks. I have a tank set up to hatch the eggs i find and try to rear some larvae, and will leave half in the tank with the adults to improve the odds that some will make it. This is really exciting!

[Uwe]

Hi,

the literature says, that these two species interbreed (in some areas of Cal).

What brings you to the statement, that females dont want to breed? You say you see amplexus, what more you want?

If they have mated successfully you will notice in some weeks, when its warmer and the female lay eggs. BTW then you will see if you have granulosa or torosa, as they have differnt egg strategies.

Good luck

Uwe

[Perry]

Hi Uwe, i think you have my threads mixed up.

[Perry]

Here are a few pictures of my trio

shot of the males nuptial pads


very plump female (Greta)



glamour shot of the male (Harold)

[bewilderbeast]

Forgive the silliness of this reply but I saw the thread title and had to point out that a male of any species wanting to breed with reluctant females is pretty much normal, right? even for humans...

[Uwe]

Originally Posted by otolith

Hi Uwe, i think you have my threads mixed up.

sorry.