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Desmognathus + cannibalism

This is a discussion on Desmognathus + cannibalism within the Plethodontids and Lungless Salamanders (Bolitoglossa, Eurycea, Plethodon, etc.) forums, part of the Species, Genus & Family Discussions category; Two days ago I just discovered that a larval D.quadramaculatus that I put in with my adults(as food ) is ...

Plethodontids and Lungless Salamanders (Bolitoglossa, Eurycea, Plethodon, etc.) The largest, and one of the most diverse groups of salamanders, these salamanders have all evolved to breathe solely through their skin and are found almost exclusively in North America.

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Old 30th January 2003   #1 (permalink)
erik
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Two days ago I just discovered that a larval D.quadramaculatus that I put in with my adults(as foodClick the image to open in full size.) is still holding his own, some 4-5 months later. How this salamander has avoided being eaten is beyond me. There has been plenty of food for the larvae to eat (live blackworms) and it has grown from about 2cm to 4cm.

I have observed the larvae the past 2 days and nights and often find it sitting in very close proximity to the adults.My adults are fed weekly on chopped earthworms(with blackworms always present in the tank), but are not obese and are always eager to eat. Just thought it was interesting....

I have also found that at warmer temps (65-70) quadramaculatus is more likely to be on land during the day. At colder temps (40-65) they are almost always under water or partially submerged. At night they are essentially terrestrial at temps between 50-70F.

For whatever it's worth....



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Old 1st February 2003   #2 (permalink)
nate
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Just thought I'd add a recent observation of "cannibalism" of sorts...it was two seperate species of Desmognathus.

I recently decided I was going to put two D. brimleyorum juveniles (around 5cm) temporarily in with 2 D. quadramaculatus juvies (around 7-8cm) for ease of keeping. This was technically breaking my personal species mixing rule since you can never find that mix in the wild. I had, however, kept D. quadramaculatus, P. ruber, and G. porphyriticus together in a community tank before without incident so I was sure the quadramaculatus would not hurt the smaller D. brimleyorum. I was right, but...

The next morning, I found both D. quadramaculatus juveniles belly up, dead on the bottom. All of their limbs and better portions of the tails had been ripped off and consumed by the smaller brimleyorum, now with conspicuous bulges in the belly Click the image to open in full size..






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Old 1st February 2003   #3 (permalink)
travis
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Nate,
You say you kept P. ruber and G. porphyriticus together.If the the P. ruber and G. porphyriticus were about the same size would you recommend keeping a few together?I would not even bother if I had lots of room for all these tanks but to conserve space I was considering mixing species.
Thanks Travis
p.s. I can't get my account to work.



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Old 1st February 2003   #4 (permalink)
nate
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Yeah, I think as long as the size differences are not too great that mix works very well.

Apply for another account and I'll get it working for you.



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Old 1st February 2003   #5 (permalink)
erik
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I do alot of species mixing and overall I have had great luck. I know alot of people are adamantly against it, but hey I am my own manClick the image to open in full size.! I have had more problems with aggression within species than with mixing. I do agree it is not for the novice and you need to do your homework on each species before attempting it. I have mixed the following native species successfully in the past:

Plethodon 'jordani' + Desmognathus orestes

Necturus maculosus + Cryptobranchus

Eurycea lucifuga + E.longicauda

Pseudotriton ruber + Gyrinophilus

All of the above can and do occur in the same habitats and have the same husbandry requirements. Just trying to keep some action going in the non-Cynops forumsClick the image to open in full size..



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Old 2nd February 2003   #6 (permalink)
nate
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You mean the non-axolotl forums...that's where all the posts seem to be these days. Click the image to open in full size.

My personal mixing philosophy is that if they exist together in nature and not in a predator-prey relationship, than why not mix them in captivity? The Plethodontids offer more opportunities in this than other families since there are often lots of species sharing the same microhabitats.



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