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So far no morphing

This is a discussion on So far no morphing within the Tiger Salamander & Axolotl (Ambystoma tigrinum, A. mavortium spp, etc.) forums, part of the Species, Genus & Family Discussions category; After finding out that my wild type axolotl was actually a tiger salamander I became rather anxious for it to ...

Tiger Salamander & Axolotl (Ambystoma tigrinum, A. mavortium spp, etc.) The Tiger Salamanders and the Axolotl are so popular amongst hobbyists that they have been given their own topic. If you're particularly interested in the Axolotl, there is a large section of the forum devoted mainly to beginner Axolotl enthusiasts (not this topic).

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Old 9th May 2016   #1 (permalink)
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Default So far no morphing

After finding out that my wild type axolotl was actually a tiger salamander I became rather anxious for it to morph. I've been taking a bunch of pictures and I don't see any changes so far. I just wish I knew how much longer before it would happen. Yeah, I'm not terribly patient.

So I figured I'd start this thread and post pictures from time to time in the hopes that if it starts to morph, but I miss the signs, someone here will recognize what's going on.

Today's pics:
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Old 9th May 2016   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

Posting pictures every day is the best way to make it feel like your salamander is taking as long as possible.

But in all seriousness, there are some tiger salamander populations that are neotenic (I don't know why), so you may be waiting a very, very long time.



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Old 10th May 2016   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

Well maybe not *every* day. I tend to take a lot of pictures though so I figure I might as well post.

And there are some tigers that do that? I did not know that. This whole tiger salamander thing has thrown me for a loop. I just have no idea what to expect.

And on that note... today he hasn't had much appetite, normally I take pictures after I feed him. He still posed for me though.
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Old 10th May 2016   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

Sorry for the double post... I would have edited my last post to add this but apparently there is no way to do that.

So I just was researching a little more and found this tidbit:
"A few populations of Tiger Salamanders in western North America and at high altitudes have a different method of development called "neoteny" or "paedogenesis."

I don't know where this tiger is from but I live in Colorado. I think that counts as western North American and high altitude. Is there anyway to determine what species this is?



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Old 10th May 2016   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

I don't know how to tell A. mavortium from A. tigrinum, but both are known to have neotenic wild populations. See:
AmphibiaWeb - Ambystoma tigrinum
And
idahoherps / Ambystoma mavortium, Barred Tiger Salamander
I don't think it looks like, or is likely to be, a California tiger salamander. The tigrinum, at least, seem to become neotenic both through genetic predisposition and through environmental factors, and its posssible mavortium are the same way. I'd imagine that if you wanted it to morph, you could try beginning to lower the water level, and if not, you could keep it the same.



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Old 10th May 2016   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

Since tiger salamanders show a wide range of colors, it can be hard to identify where your salamander originally came from. It's most likely to come from the range of the Barred tiger salamander, Ambystoma mavitorium, as they are frequently collected from the vernal ponds they were collected from. Again, it is very likely they could be a different type, but A.mavitorium seems most likely. We won't know until it morphs though!



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Old 10th May 2016   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

So very confusing!

I checked the links, schmiggle, and if that map is accurate then I live on the line between A.m.nebulosum and A.m.mavortium. So if they were caught locally it seems it could be either. If it was shipped to the shop from elsewhere though then that makes this even more difficult to figure out.

I just need to know which it's going to be, aquatic or terrestrial. Either is fine but I'm currently in a holding pattern on where to move his tank. And someone had suggested that I lower his water level already but now I'm wondering if that's just stressing him out more. If he's not going to morph, or he's not ready, then a higher water level would give him more space, plus be easier to maintain proper water parameters.

I may try calling the shop where I bought him and see if they have any info at least on where he's from but I'm not holding my breath. They sold him to me as an axolotl.



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Old 11th May 2016   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

Slaggy hasn't had much of an appetite the last couple days, but I also am getting conflicting info on how much and how often to feed him. So maybe it's not a big deal, maybe he's just not hungry. He's not showing any interest in sitting on the top of the pot (at the level where I lowered the water) but he has taken to sitting on top of the plants. Still completely submerged though.

He wouldn't slow down enough for me to get many pictures tonight.
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Old 12th May 2016   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

You just can't win, can you? :)
But in all honesty, you could probably just try leaving the water level up and letting him do his thing one way or the other. Just basically a guess, but I figure it can't hurt, right? Then you could basically just have your axolotl.



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Old 12th May 2016   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

I actually ordered a couple juvie axies and got them a couple days ago. Such cute little things. We're definitely attached to Slaggy so whatever life choice he chooses is fine with us. I just want to know! LOL

He ate a worm today. It put up a heck of a fight though. Took about a full three minutes or more for him to actually eat it. It escaped from his mouth more than once. Feisty little wormy. Hehe Slag won though. So that made me happy.

He was sitting on another plant today. Such a silly Slagathor. lol
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Old 12th May 2016   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

Congratulations on getting him to eat a worm. It's often quite fun to watch. It is similar with my juvenile axolotls, but with the mature ones it's more like a disappearing act. It's magic.
Also glad to hear that you have managed to get some juvenile axolotls. What have you got? Will you post some pictures?
Your salamander is a handsome fella though, lovely markings.



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Old 12th May 2016   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarramy View Post
Well maybe not *every* day. I tend to take a lot of pictures though so I figure I might as well post.

And there are some tigers that do that? I did not know that. This whole tiger salamander thing has thrown me for a loop. I just have no idea what to expect.

And on that note... today he hasn't had much appetite, normally I take pictures after I feed him. He still posed for me though.
The patterns showing on his skin are beautiful. My Tiger salamander had recently morphed, and still has yet to show signs of a confirmed adult pattern.



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Old 12th May 2016   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

Hopefully your tiger will be neotenic. Just keep it cool, keep lighting to a minimum and supply plenty of hides.



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Old 13th May 2016   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

I got 2 golden albino axies. Super cute little things. I do wish now that I'd bought two of different colors. I can't tell them apart. LOL They are about 3-4 inches currently. I need to change out the substrate in their tank though. I wasn't thinking about it but with their coloration and the color of the sand it makes taking pictures difficult. Everything looks yellow. Heh.

Slaggy ate another worm today. It didn't put up as much of a fight this time. I do also give him feeder fish from time to time (from a reliable source, no parasites), and occasional cubes of blood worms, mysis shrimp, and beef heart, so to make sure he has a varied diet.

I have also found differing info about how cool to keep the tanks. One page I read said between 60-64, another said 65-68, and another said between 65-72. Kind of a wide range. Mine tends to run between 64 at night to 68 during the day.
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Old 13th May 2016   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

I love the pictures of Slaggy with the worm poking out of his mouth. That made me chuckle. Congratulations on getting him to eat, he really is a handsome fella.
Your axis are very cute. They are quite adorable at that age/size. Perhaps you will be able to tell them apart from the iridophore patterns on their sides, for example I'd say that the last 2 pictures are of the same axolotl because I think I can see the top part of a circular "sunshine" pattern of iridophores just behind his front leg. It may just take some time and getting used to them before you can tell them apart.
Best of luck with all of your little ones.



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Old 13th May 2016   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

I love the worm pictures too. Looks like he's sticking out his tongue. lol He's such a funny little guy. My husband was moving around some decorations and he came up and sat on his fingers. So cute!

And yeah, that is the same axie in both the last pictures. That's a good observation about the sunburst pattern. I have been wanting to name them but it seemed kind of pointless if I couldn't tell them apart, so that helps a lot. :) Thanks!



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Old 14th May 2016   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

Hello from France,

Your salamander is very nice,

according to me it's a blotched tiger salamander, ambystoma mavortium MELANOSTICTUM,

^^



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Old 14th May 2016   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

Ah now that could be. I did try calling the shop and they, of course, had no idea. So your guess could very well be correct. It does kind of sound like Slag. :) Thanks.



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Old 15th May 2016   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

Still no signs or morphing but he's still just as cute at ever. :)
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Old 15th May 2016   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: So far no morphing

I think I can see the caudal fin starting to reduce :)



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