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Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

This is a discussion on Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile? within the Tiger Salamander & Axolotl (Ambystoma tigrinum, A. mavortium spp, etc.) forums, part of the Species, Genus & Family Discussions category; As they thread states, are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile ? Can they be bred with other morphs or their ...

Tiger Salamander & Axolotl (Ambystoma tigrinum, A. mavortium spp, etc.) The Tiger Salamanders and the Axolotl are so popular amongst hobbyists that they have been given their own topic. If you're particularly interested in the Axolotl, there is a large section of the forum devoted mainly to beginner Axolotl enthusiasts (not this topic).

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Old 21st April 2012   #1 (permalink)
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Default Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

As they thread states, are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile ? Can they be bred with other morphs or their aquatic counterparts ? If so are the offspring more likely to morph than the those from non morphed parents. Thanks, i have tried to get this information else where but have had conflicting answers. Hope you can help.
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Old 21st April 2012   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

My guess is they have viable sperm and viable ovum. It is probably hard to get information because they are more difficult to breed in captivity when they are on land.
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Old 21st April 2012   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

Thank you Michael, has anyone actually bred a morph with a morph ? I can find no reference to this happening.
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Old 22nd April 2012   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

From what I've seen metamorphosed A. mexicanum seem to not be as robust as metamorphosed A. andersoni. I don't know of anyone who has bred either. My guess is the andersoni wouldn't be any more difficult to breed than a metamorphosed A. tigrinum. Metamorphosed A tigrinum are not simple to breed in captivity.
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Old 22nd April 2012   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

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Originally Posted by xxianxx View Post
As they thread states, are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile ? Can they be bred with other morphs or their aquatic counterparts ? If so are the offspring more likely to morph than the those from non morphed parents. Thanks, i have tried to get this information else where but have had conflicting answers. Hope you can help.
Morphing wouldn't alter fertility its just a elemental adjustment. Induced breeding is altered once morphed. A terrestrial mole salamander would need seasonal stimulation to enter a water source and want to breed. Its been documented that pedomorphic/neotenic individuals breed with morphed individuals.

I'm thinking that once breeding season occurs Ambystoma aren't so keen on if or if not an individual has gills. Pheromones matter more than anything during breeding season.
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Old 22nd April 2012   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

I got 3 A andersoni last year doing well almost ready for breeding by now. A friend got another 3 but they soon started to morph and I got them. Two of the morphed and this proces had already started, nothing to do. The last was saved. Neither of the two are alive today despite I dont think I did anything wrong. I also keep other Ambystomids like tigrinum and diaboli an have even been breeding tigrinum. So I think that keeping morphed andersoni alive is problematic? Obviously I had planned to breed the morphed version following the seasonal climate around Zacapu.

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Old 22nd April 2012   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

megs how long did the morphed andersoni last and any idea what killed them?
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Old 22nd April 2012   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

They lasted a few weeks. I dont know what killed them, I treated them like newly morphed tigrinum.
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Old 22nd April 2012   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

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I got 3 A andersoni last year doing well almost ready for breeding by now. A friend got another 3 but they soon started to morph and I got them. Two of the morphed and this proces had already started, nothing to do. The last was saved. Neither of the two are alive today despite I dont think I did anything wrong. I also keep other Ambystomids like tigrinum and diaboli an have even been breeding tigrinum. So I think that keeping morphed andersoni alive is problematic? Obviously I had planned to breed the morphed version following the seasonal climate around Zacapu.

Martin
The problem i initially had with my A.andersoni morph, was its loss of body weight, it had lost about 50% of its body mass and was having trouble feeding, its depth perception was so bad it would snap at food and constantly miss. I spent up to an hour a day for the first few weeks tong feeding before it started to get the idea, i can still spend twenty minutes a day now but am trying to teach it to hunt for itself. I have added cockroaches and wood lice to its enclosure and see it snapping at them when they are close enough but it still needs help. I think if i had not initially spent the first few weeks hand feeding it would not have survived. Has anyone else had this experience with new morphs refusing or being unable to feed ? it might account for some of the mortalities.
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Old 22nd April 2012   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

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Originally Posted by xxianxx View Post
The problem i initially had with my A.andersoni morph, was its loss of body weight, it had lost about 50% of its body mass and was having trouble feeding, its depth perception was so bad it would snap at food and constantly miss. I spent up to an hour a day for the first few weeks tong feeding before it started to get the idea, i can still spend twenty minutes a day now but am trying to teach it to hunt for itself. I have added cockroaches and wood lice to its enclosure and see it snapping at them when they are close enough but it still needs help. I think if i had not initially spent the first few weeks hand feeding it would not have survived. Has anyone else had this experience with new morphs refusing or being unable to feed ? it might account for some of the mortalities.
Interesting observations. How does it do with worms? My animals usually gently press their nose against worms before snapping at them, which might alleviate the depth-perception problems.
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Old 22nd April 2012   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

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Interesting observations. How does it do with worms? My animals usually gently press their nose against worms before snapping at them, which might alleviate the depth-perception problems.
Worms are the one thing it can catch, it generally nuzzles food items placed on the ground in front of it before eating, the worms are too slow to get away, cockroaches, crickets and wood lice dont hang around long enough to be eaten after the initial inspection. I have started to behead these food items and place them in front of the morph, they are still moving and this stimulates him to feed. I could probably feed it exclusively on worms but i want to provide a mixed diet. Interestingly the size of worm it takes after morphing is about half the size of when it was aquatic, it refuses worms it once would have consumed with ease. The depth perception problem occured in the first few weeks after morphing, i spoke to a number of people who are experienced with tiger sals, they all stated that this is a problem with new morps, my morph can now judge depths, its problem appears to be that i have spoilt it and it is used to a waiter service.
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Old 22nd April 2012   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

I also find that morphed tigers dont eat worms anymore or at least i have to move it in frontof them. They like much smaller food when morphed and they seems to be triggered by movement more than smell? They can spend ten minutes smelling an earthworm but are fast triggered to eat by the movement by a mealworm.
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Old 22nd April 2012   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

I would like to remind everyone that discussions on the forum should be civil. That's why some messages were removed. Thank you.
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Old 24th April 2012   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

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Obviously I had planned to breed the morphed version following the seasonal climate around Zacapu.

Martin
What were the seasonal conditions ? if you have already researched this could you tell me, it would be interesting to know. I may try breeding my morp with its ex tank mate, theoretically possible but probably a fail in the making.
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Old 24th April 2012   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are morphed A.andersoni and A.mexicanum fertile?

Well, first of all I would focus on temperature. I know from my past work with fish from zacapu that they take down to a few degres above freezing for shorter periodes of time but that temps betwin 7 and 12 is a good winter temperature for the long term breeding of the fish. My own aquatic a andersoni have overwintered betwin 3,9 and 12 and the temp has been below 10c for more than 3 month this winter and they appear healthy and active.
I would also keep the morphed animals dryer or with acces to dryer areas in winter than in summer.
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