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Alternative method L.laoensis

This is a discussion on Alternative method L.laoensis within the Warty Newts (Paramesotriton & Laotriton) & Paddletail Newts (Pachytriton forums, part of the Species, Genus & Family Discussions category; I don't know it this kind of conclusions can be made out of the results I got with pond water. ...

Warty Newts (Paramesotriton & Laotriton) & Paddletail Newts (Pachytriton Often sold incorrectly as Japanese fire-bellied newts, these territorial newts are distinct from other genera and very interesting in their own right.

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Old 19th June 2016   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

I don't know it this kind of conclusions can be made out of the results I got with pond water. L. laoensis live in lotic system, but other "lotic" animals have proven to be resistant to a setup with a higher germ load. Gammarus can take a high germ load, but is vulnerable to all kinds of polution. I do believe that my pond water has a high germ load, but probably a balanced one.

Why I've managed to use Daphnia as a food item can depend on a lot of reasons, but one thing is for sure in my opinion. Remove dead Daphnia asap and only introduce it to a balanced setup so the Daphnia stays alive for a longer period. Please keep in mind, although I think that you do, that this method is extremely situation based and that trying to copy it may be impossible if resourses (like similar pond water) aren't available.



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Old 21st June 2016   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Very interesting method, thanks for sharing! I love these kind of "natural" methods, when a complex chemical equilibrium can be reached. I also had many issues with "sterile" environment, as I cannot keep them sterile very long.

I have also heard that blood worms could carry heavy metals and other chemicals, which even if it is not a short term threat, can have long term consequences. But I never heard about these issues with daphnia, it is good to know!



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Old 24th June 2016   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

I miscalculated the amount of larvae, because I forgot that 3 larvae are Paramesotriton sp. animals, also described as "red warty newt" by Schultschik. I kept them together with L.laoensis larvae, because I had only a couple of them. That means that I had 30 surviving L.laoensis. All of them morphed. The Paramesotriton sp. larvae are still aquatic, bigger and more bulky. I've lost one L.laoensis in the terrestrial fase. A freshly morphed specimen lost one of his front legs, probably due to a verocious sibling. It didn't show any mold or infection, just a "clean cut". Luckily the others look well fed and healthy:

Click the image to open in full size.



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Old 25th June 2016   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

The Paramesotriton sp:

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Old 25th June 2016   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Wow, chunky!
Do you have any locality info for their parents, or are they descended from pet trade animals?



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Old 25th June 2016   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

These are the undescribed animals which Schultschik and some others managed to breed. Schultschik called them "Roter Warzenmolch" which is German for red warty newt. They look a bit like P.deloustali, though they are a bit smaller. I have 2 animals from 2014. Very nice, though it's currently not known where they originate from.



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Old 27th June 2016   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Turns out that I'm not good at counting. Counted 29 juveniles last time, though I now saw 31 animals. Alas another one of the animals that morphed later on died. This one was also missing a limb. Haven't read anything about this, but I haven't asked around for similar cases. So there are 30 animals in total.

Click the image to open in full size.



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Old 27th June 2016   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

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Originally Posted by Niels D View Post
These are the undescribed animals which Schultschik and some others managed to breed. Schultschik called them "Roter Warzenmolch" which is German for red warty newt. They look a bit like P.deloustali, though they are a bit smaller. I have 2 animals from 2014. Very nice, though it's currently not known where they originate from.
Can't help thinking of this one when you say red, do they bare any resemblance?
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Old 27th June 2016   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

I'm terrible at identifying species, but they look a bit similar, though there are differences. Try to resemble the animals you think about with this:

Salamanderland

Click on the pictures for more of them.

I don't have any adult animals myself, though I have two specimens which could be kept aquatic at this moment. Their tank isn't finished, so I keep on keeping them terrestrial until I'm done.



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Old 27th June 2016   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Yes, as you say, similar but not quite the same. In any case, I don't have a positive identification for the one in my picture, its just an image I saved from another thread on here somewhere. I think P. longliensis was suggested, but the colour is obviously way off.



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Old 28th June 2016   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Hi guys in the earlier discussion you guys were talking about using BBS for your tadpoles and were concerned about feeding Daphnia. Have you guys thought about feeding your tadpoles microworms instead? I use them for betta fry and newt tadpoles. Microworms are not a worm, but a nematode species Panagrellus. Their easy to keep in little cup cultures that last about a month. They do not refrigeration either. Just another option for tap food.



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Old 28th June 2016   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

I know microworms, and they could definitely be an option. L.laoensis can eat chopped tubifex after hatching as well. You can also put blood worms in a nylon aquarium net and put it in a little bowl of water. The smallest specimens crawl through the net. These are good enough to feed as well.



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Old 2nd July 2016   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Not really an update, but I check on these guys quite often to ensure everything is going well. Though I hate to admit it, I'm giving these animals a lot more attention than most of my other species. I would love to claim that I'm considering all my animals to be equally valuable (not meaning their economic value). Still I'm getting a lot more dopamine seeing these guys doing well compared to (for example) my waltls or fire bellies.

Of course the latter species are a lot more easy to raise. I just put them outside in plastic containers and feed them Daphnia now and then. Most of the time their setup gets filled with mosquito larvae provided by nature itself. I only check on them once a week or so. When the laoensis were aquatic I try to count them every day. Okay, they need more care, but it's a feeling as well.

Oh well. I'm happy to say that they're all still there and doing well. I was really glad to see the entire enclosure was filled with little poops. Such joy! With a smile I cleaned their setup with pond water. Wish I would be that enthusiastic when it comes to changing my daughter's diaper.



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Old 2nd July 2016   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Where did you get the styrofoam boxes? I forgot to ask last time.



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Old 2nd July 2016   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

I've got mine from deliveries of live food and other products. You can order them online though. They aren't that expensive. Just google (for the Netherlands, since you're Dutch like me) for "EPS koeldoos". I've never ordered them myself, but I ran out so I need to in the near future. Maybe we can order together, since you live near me?



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Old 2nd July 2016   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

That would be a good idea. Would they do any good for C. orientalis? I want to raise mine terrestrial if I manage to breed them. With your animals that won't be a problem. Really love the one with the spotted pattern. We will discuss this later, when you come to collect the ramshorne snails.



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Old 2nd July 2016   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

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Where did you get the styrofoam boxes? I forgot to ask last time.
As well as live food as Niels says, the styrofoam boxes are often used for shipping perishable seafood or vegetables like broccoli cauliflowers etc.

Polystyrene Mailing Boxes with Lids | Custompac, Castleford, UK



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Old 5th July 2016   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

I guess this method works for Cynops as well, but I prefer raising them in undeep water filled with moss or plants. You've seen it at my place. You can always try of course. I'm really a newt man myself and I try to avoid terrestrial setups as much as possible. Alas it's not possible with Paramesotriton and L.laoensis.

I lost 2 animals today. I guess it's not a coincidence that it were the two smallest specimens. I guess they never started eating after they've morphed. On the last picture I recognise one of the victims as the one that sits on it's own at the left of the container due to the lack of a pattern compared to the others. I don't know which one the other victim is. Both didn't show any signs of injury. They just look emaciated compared to the others. Still 28 left. I hope the others will hang on. I see 2 other animals which are more skinny than the others, but not as thin as the 2 that pesished.



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Old 6th July 2016   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Yes, that looked like a handy method. Since I've only kept Triturus I want to experience with terrestrial setups though. Thanks! I will try the styrofoam boxes.



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Old 7th July 2016   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

%$&%@ Lost another one when I was away for 2 days. Also missing a limb, but this one wasn't that small. Not big either luckily. The other 27 animals look okay. Most of them look really well fed.



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