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Alternative method L.laoensis

This is a discussion on Alternative method L.laoensis within the Warty Newts (Paramesotriton & Laotriton) & Paddletail Newts (Pachytriton forums, part of the Species, Genus & Family Discussions category; Sad to report it ended up in the death of all animals. I went for Italy for three weeks on ...

Warty Newts (Paramesotriton & Laotriton) & Paddletail Newts (Pachytriton Often sold incorrectly as Japanese fire-bellied newts, these territorial newts are distinct from other genera and very interesting in their own right.

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Old 15th August 2016   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Sad to report it ended up in the death of all animals. I went for Italy for three weeks on the 24th. I still had 27 animals and most of them were looking good, though a couple kept on looking a bit skinny. I left all animals I have in the care of my father as I do each year. Since he lives elsewhere he could only check on everything once a week, and once twice a week. In the first week he reported that a lot of animals died and most survivors looked bad. The second week I only had 6 animals left, but they looked well fed and dry skinned according to my father. The third week they were gone as well.

First I thought it had to be a lack of oxygen, because normally the boxes get opened a lot more. The Paramesotriton species were all okay though, and they are kept in the same styrofoam boxes. He even forgot one box with P.deloustali in it and they were looking absolutely fine after three weeks without food and fresh moist. The beech leaves were molded as hell, but they didn't seem to matter. Styrofoam isn't completely airtight as well. The temperatures were around 20C, so it couldn't be the summer heat.

Could it be due tot the way they were raised? Of course, but my gut is telling me that something else is the case. My father is very capable for looking after my animals, but he could have done a little detail different that I normally do. He also told me I hadn't told him to wash his hands before handling the juveniles while cleaning their enclosure, so he forgot to do this. I know I told him, but I can understand that the great amount of rearing info can be the cause of what happened. Next time I will leave all animals in the care of my father, except for the L.laoensis if I can manage to get some eggs again. Those will go to a fellow keeper friend, just to releive him from the pressure. You need to cherish the people who make it possible for you to go on vacation with a hobby like we have.



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Old 15th August 2016   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Sorry to hear that mate,very frustrating.



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Old 16th August 2016   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Been following this thread and am very disappointed for you Niels. Totally sucks and my condolences to you.

HJ



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Old 17th August 2016   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

It's puzzling to think how this species survives in the wild,where do the juveniles go after morphing?,
I understand that the ponds or waterbodies are constantly refreshed with clean flowing water,but can't imagine that the area around the water bodies is free of bacteria and dirt?,
There must be external factors we are unaware of in the hobby.Really puzzling ,such a beautiful secretive species can always try again in the near future mate



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Old 17th August 2016   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Sorry to hear that Niels. You can bet if things start going wrong, it will be when you're not around to catch it early. At least the Paramesotriton were ok.


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Originally Posted by mr cyclone View Post
It's puzzling to think how this species survives in the wild,where do the juveniles go after morphing?,
I understand that the ponds or waterbodies are constantly refreshed with clean flowing water,but can't imagine that the area around the water bodies is free of bacteria and dirt?,
There must be external factors we are unaware of in the hobby.Really puzzling ,such a beautiful secretive species can always try again in the near future mate
I've had the same thought, but if it is bacteria, I'd say it's one specific kind rather than bacteria and dirt generally? Something not present in their natural range that they have no immunity to?
I wonder if they find a certain micro climate in the wild that they can't find in certain captive set ups.




Last edited by Chinadog; 17th August 2016 at 21:45.
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Old 20th August 2016   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

I hoped they would be more restistant due to the fact they were raised in pond water.



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Old 20th August 2016   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Yes, and I appreciate you putting your money where your mouth was and trying it weather it worked or not, especially with a hard won species like Laotriton.
Respect.



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Old 27th August 2016   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Thanks. I hate the fact that we sometimes only hear the good news, because we can learn just as much from other people's mistakes, maybe even more. I'm happy to see that there are more and more members here which also report the mistakes they've made and the times they have bad luck. Prestige or money must not be your main drive in this hobby. It must be the lasting good health of your animals. Let them come third and fourth in that order. Second place is for fun of course.



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Old 28th August 2016   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Great statement!



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Old 28th August 2016   #50 (permalink)
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I agree Niels, we lost as you know in the beginning

Tylototriton Shanjing 3,5,19

All larvae, because there whas Nobody, who knew how to get it done right, with F2 T. shanjings.
Even last Year we lost 10 morphs, it just happens.


Tylototriton Shanjing 3,5,19




Last edited by Chinadog; 28th August 2016 at 12:20.
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Old 9th September 2016   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

That's terrible news. They looked so healthy and well fed last time I saw them. Wish you could raise them (semi) aquatic like C.orientalis or C.e.popei.



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Old 30th October 2016   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

I'm extremely lucky. When I got back from the holidays all animals had died. On the 5th of July I lost 2 animals earlier. They looked very emaciated and they didn't move, so I thought they had perished (check the post in this thread). I considered them to be a lost case and I put them on the turtle island in my pond (see the pictrue of my pond on page 1 of this thread). The reason I did this was because of the fact that the island was swarming with ants and I thought to give them a treat.

Because it was getting cold I took the turtles out of the pond last week. While I was doing this something caught my eye on the island/dock. Yes people, I saw a live juvenile L.laoensis looking curiously from under a rock. Because I remembered that I put 2 animals there I searched under the flagstones for the second one and found it to my surprise. They were a lot smaller than the juveniles I bought on Gersfeld though, which were from the same season, but who cares! These were MY animals!!!!

Can you imagine how I stood there dancing of joy in my backyard? Luckily nobody saw me, because I'm not known for being a dancing queen. I've had this sort of luck before with L.laoensis larvae of which I thought they weren't going to make it. I put them in an old Gammarus breeding setup with a lot of moss and murky water, only to collect them three months later looking fantastic. This wasn't as big of a surprise as what I found out last week of course. I hope they're going to make it, because they look healthy, but they're still pretty skinny.

Lesson learned: Make sure animals are really dead before you "toss" them away.

And: Giving animals, which appear to be doomed, a second chance can result in remarkable recoveries.



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Old 16th November 2016   #53 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

That's awesome news niels



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Old 17th November 2016   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Yes and they are doing well now they're back inside. I'm feeding them small earthworms and white worms from my compost heap. Hope this will boost them futher, so they will become well fed like the ones I got from Gersfeld.



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Old 26th November 2016   #55 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Though I've seen how much smaller they are than the others, they look very good. Really hope that they will reach adulthood, because then it's an indication that the death of your other juveniles has nothing to do with the way you raised them aquatic. I hope you can manage to get some eggs again, so you can try it again.



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Old 27th November 2016   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

There's still a chance that my method of raising them aquatic could be the cause of them being weaker, but I really think I did something wrong during the terrestrial fase. I have an idea about the cause. I offer some compost in a plastic bottle cap as you can see on a previous picture in this thread. Compost can contain a lot of nasty bacteria and other problem causing ingredients. This could explain the missing limbs of some animals. L.laoensis could have bigger problems with the compost than my other species, resulting in only the death of L.laoensis during my vacation.

I'm using a new method now. I put in bigger amounts of compost, even the nasty looking kind, which seems to hold more little earth worms, springtails and white worms, in a plastic container of the size of a little film canister, which they use in the dart frog hobby. With a piece of mosquito mesh and a small rubber band I cover the opening of the container and I put it in the setup sideways, but in a manner no fluids can ooze out. This way all yummy critters can crawl out through the mesh, but my animals can't come in contact with the compost itself.



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Old 27th November 2016   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Oh yeah, all L.laoenis are doing well at this moment. The "survivors" are still a little thin, but they have gained some mass.



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Old 7th December 2016   #58 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Survivors (right) compared to a Gersfeld specimen.
Click the image to open in full size.



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Old 7th December 2016   #59 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

Although smaller, the survivor looks a good weight for it's length. Maybe comparable to a wild juvie of similar age I guess? Glad to see the pair of them are still healthy. :)



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Old 8th December 2016   #60 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternative method L.laoensis

The other is a bit slender alas, but he still looks healthy enough. Picked the smallest of the Gersfeld animals, but they don't differ in size that much.



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