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Need help identifying this salamander or newt.

This is a discussion on Need help identifying this salamander or newt. within the Newt and Salamander Help forums, part of the Beginner Newt, Salamander, Axolotl & Help Topics category; Hey guys, I found this little guy in a small pond near my house (in North Carolina) so I took ...

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Old 3rd February 2010   #1 (permalink)
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Question Need help identifying this salamander or newt.
Hey guys, I found this little guy in a small pond near my house (in North Carolina) so I took a couple pictures and I am curious to see what kind of salamander or newt he is. You can't tell from the pictures but his/her hind legs have five toes and his front has four. Also, his underbelly is off white and I believe there's only three rami emerging from each side of his head. Any guesses anyone?
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Old 3rd February 2010   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help identifying this salamander or newt.
Looks an awful lot like a mudpuppy, Necturus maculosus, but with 5 toes, it can't be it.

I'm lousy at identifying larvae. Perhaps some kind of Ambystoma?
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Old 3rd February 2010   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help identifying this salamander or newt.
That's what I thought too. But yea, the fifth toe on both hind legs are really small (a quarter the size of the other toes) but there definitely there and Mudpuppies don't have that.
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Old 3rd February 2010   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help identifying this salamander or newt.
Desmognathus larva? I really donīt know...xD
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Old 3rd February 2010   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help identifying this salamander or newt.
I am about 90% sure that it is a Eurycea larva. It looks like E. bislineata complex to me, but the pond habitat is uncharacteristic for them.
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Old 3rd February 2010   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help identifying this salamander or newt.
How big is it?
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Old 3rd February 2010   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help identifying this salamander or newt.
about 2.5 inches. after looking at other photos and reading some detailed descriptions, I think Nathan is right. thanks everyone
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Old 5th February 2010   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help identifying this salamander or newt.
Definitely not Ambystomatid.

My guess would also be a Eurycea, but the head is pretty large. Is the pond spring-fed? A road-rut?

Edit: Forwarded this on to Dr. Pauley from Marshall Univ. I'll get back to you when he replies.
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Old 6th February 2010   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help identifying this salamander or newt.
So the experts say it's definitely Eurycea probably cirrigera based on your location. It might also be wilderae if you're in range. Great call, Nathan!
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Old 10th February 2010   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help identifying this salamander or newt.
Don't all amphibians have 5 toes at the rear and only 4 at the front....?!
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Old 10th February 2010   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help identifying this salamander or newt.
Most, but not all. US salamanders with 4/4 toes include Eurycea quadridigitata, E. chaimberlaini, Hemidactylium scutatum, and all Necturus species. I believe some Asian hynobiids also have this pattern. The American Amphiuma species and European Proteus anguinus have even more reduced numbers of toes, down to the extreme of Amphiuma pholeter with one toe on each foot. Sirenids of course have no hind toes, as they have no hind limbs.

There also a number of frogs, mainly dwarf species, with reduced numbers of toes. Toe reduction is often associated with dwarfism, perrenibranchy, and other changes in development timing.
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