A little help?

[shmifty5]

okay, so im getting a couple c.orientalis (i think, they might be small c.pyrrhogaster, but im fairly certain that they are c.orientalis) for my 20 gal long tank. my first question is on the actual set-up.

1. i have a kind of small under-gravel filter and im planning on buying a second filter (one of those canister type ones, the ones that suck in water at the bottom and slowly pour it from the top, looks like a rectangle...), and i was just wondering if that would be enough for my tank. the UG seems to be for a 5 or 10 gallon tank and the C filter is for 10-30 gallon tanks.

my second question is about the newts.

2. the newts im planning on buying are from a small pet store in the larger town (i live in small-town saskatchewan, so any pet-store that carries newts is a strange occurence) and the store keeps them (about 9 or 10) in a common betta tank, the plastic ones with the hinged lid and looks to be about less than 5 gallons, maybe 2.5 gallons, should i be overly-concerned about buying them or am i doing these rare (around here) newts a favor?

also im wondering if the little bubbles that cover the sides and bottom of the tank are dangerous to my newts.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by shmifty5

1. i have a kind of small under-gravel filter and im planning on buying a second filter (one of those canister type ones, the ones that suck in water at the bottom and slowly pour it from the top, looks like a rectangle...), and i was just wondering if that would be enough for my tank. the UG seems to be for a 5 or 10 gallon tank and the C filter is for 10-30 gallon tanks.

Preferrably I would get rid of all the filters and just go with a heavily planted tank and weekly water changes. Cynops orientalis love and prefer water with no movement. With a cycled, heavily planted tank you probably would only need to do around a 10-15% water change each week, if that much.

2. the newts im planning on buying are from a small pet store in the larger town (i live in small-town saskatchewan, so any pet-store that carries newts is a strange occurence) and the store keeps them (about 9 or 10) in a common betta tank, the plastic ones with the hinged lid and looks to be about less than 5 gallons, maybe 2.5 gallons, should i be overly-concerned about buying them or am i doing these rare (around here) newts a favor?

Unfortunately these newts are more than likely WC newts. You would be better off buying CB newts but with you living in Canada I know newt breeders are few and far between there. The inherent problem with WC newts is that they usually come in stressed, malnourished, and in poor health over all so just be prepared if some die.

also im wondering if the little bubbles that cover the sides and bottom of the tank are dangerous to my newts.

These bubbles come from a newly setup tank and will go away after a few days. Since you don't have the newts yet I would go ahead and let the tank finish the cycling process first before you add the newts. If you have any questions about this process then you can find most, if not all, of your answers in this article.

[shmifty5]

i would love to have a planted tank, but as it stands right now i simply don't have either the money or the time to properly care for the plants, in the next couple weeks i will however be buying some java moss and java fern (i hear that they are easy and hardy species, fingers crossed) aswell as some moss balls, i still have to save up a little for the shipping and the lighting fixtures.

i know, im already prepared for some losses, but im hoping that i can atleast save a pair so that i can breed my own (not for the money, i'd be doing it to help all the other newt lovers that loathe the thought of badly treated WC newts), if not then atleast made them comfy for their last days of life.

i haven't had the tank cycle yet, i need to buy the little clear hose for my undergravel filter and the second filter would be brand new, so im going to try and cycle the tank with the newts, daily 20-30% water changes should keep the harmful effects of the cycle to a minimum, removing any uneaten food is definately going to be a must aswell as providing lots of land area if they do need to flee the water temporarely.

thanks for the reply.

[Rodrigo]

I know your reasons are good, but i would strongly recommend that you avoid buying those newts if you really care about the WC issue. By buying them you will only condemn many more to the same fate, which you won´t be able to rescue (and shouldn´t).
The only real way to stop the wild caught market is to NOT buy the newts. If noone buys them , the pet-shop will stop purchasing them from the majorists. You won´t be able to compete with the WC market by breeding them because people prefer the cheap adults in the shop, instead of the tiny, delicate juveniles (at least people who don´t know better).

Of course, it´s your decission. I´m just trying to let you know about the harsh reality, because when i started i also thought i could outcompete the pet-shops.....ha!!! A lot of education to the general public is needed in order to achieve that.

[Jennewt]

I'd recommend reading through the for-sale international section of the forum. There are at least two posts for people giving away CB firebellies in Canada. It's at least worth considering.

[shmifty5]

i definately would not be out-competeing anyone, but i could atleast atempt to help other people in saskatchewan that want newts but don't want the WC newts and are in the same low-budget catagory, it won't save every newt, but it will help a couple.

and i already looked in the classifieds, they all seem to be from ontario or another province and the shipping rates are a little high for me (still in school, working at the salt-plant to help pay for things, saving to become a palaeontologist).

[shmifty5]

okay, so the store only had 1 left, another guy had bought most of them just an hour earlier, leaving only 1 behind, i checked with the store and as it turns out the newts are CB not WC and they were in a much better tank than i had seen previously, i guess it was a temporary tank.

i got him (yep, it's a bro) in my 20 tank, i bought some precultured gravel and a 20 gallon canister filter to go along with my 5 (could've sworn it was a 10 but it's actually a 5) gallon under-gravel filter, he has 3 places to go for land (the hollow stump with a flat perch rock on top, my home-made base ceramic (tank safe!) cthulhu mask, and a glass ramp), the tank is filled to about 2/3rds of the tank with treated water, i gave him a slice of frozen blood-worm cube (just incase he is hungry, i will clean out the food if it goes uneaten for more than 1 hour), and i have a sheet over my window to block out direct sunlight.

just want to know if that will do him just fine.

fyi, the treated gravel came in a sealed plastic bag with water and 2 packets of de-chlorinator and water clearer, it had english and some type of asian on the back (im guessing it's japanese as it doesn't look like chinese to me).

[Rodrigo]

I´m sorry to tell you this, but an adult Cynops orientalis in a pet-shop is without a doubt, WC. I´d bet my right arm without hesitation (if you don´t believe me, i assure you many others will tell you the same).
Pet-shops will say anything in order to make a sell, believe me. I´ve been blatantly lied so many times.....

Take a good read of this article:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Cy...ientalis.shtml
The minimum recommende volume for a single newt would be a 10 gallon filled with water. A 5 gallon is too small, specially if it´s not even full of water and there´s lots of decoration that take up volume.
It really is important that you provide 10 gallons of water because with a smaller volume, maintaining water quality becomes an absolute nightmare, and the parameters will not be stable at all. All this will cause stress, which will prevent the newt from recovering from all the neglect it has received, and put him in great risk of infection.

The ideal set-up , as i´ve said, is a 10 gallon, filled with water to 3-4 cm of the rim, with a thin layer (never more than an inch) of sand as substrate, or no substrate at all, heavily planted (they really do love LOTS of plants), no filter (they are a still water species and strong currents can cause enough stress to actually make the newt leave the water permanently), and a scape-proof mesh lid (never understimate their ability to scape, they are little houdinies!!!)


Edit: gravel is an inferior substrate since if it´s small enough, it can be accidentally ingested and cause impaction (which can result in death). Additionally, it traps huge amounts of debris and uneaten foods which then rot, causing ammonia levels to raise. Fine sand is a far better option as it´s completely safe and traps no dirt.

[shmifty5]

thanks azhael, im kind of sad to know that i thought i was buying a CB but instead got a WC, it really blows when the people that should be doing the right thing are instead lying.

still tho, he looks okay to me, he hasn't swam at all since he found the mask perch and he hasn't eaten yet, i have him in my 20 gallon tank (water is 2 or 3 inches from the rim) and the gravel is angular and slighty larger than his head, with his ornaments there is still about 39-40 litres of water, so the water should be fine, just incase that isn't sufficient i will be buying some plants and a moss ball for his tank, both filters are on the lowest setting so that there isn't much flow at all (the bloodworms that get washed off his perch when i give hime a little soak just sink to the bottom, they don't swirl around).

i would use sand, but with the under-gravel filter and the canister filter im pretty sure sand would be bad choice for the current-setup, maybe i will switch-over when i get the plants established, but for now, the gravel is my best bet.

[Rodrigo]

It really is sad. You´d be surprised the number of people in this forum who have been lied by pet-shops. They are after all a shop....they need to sell....

If you have a canister filter, there really is no need whatsoever for the under-gravel one. You´d be much better off without since it´s only producing heat and current. In fact, once you have it well planted and cycled, i´d advice you to have no filter at all! The newt will thank you for this, and you won´t miss them.