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New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

This is a discussion on New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused?? within the Newt and Salamander Help forums, part of the Beginner Newt, Salamander, Axolotl & Help Topics category; My sister has been asking me suspicious questions for about 2 weeks. After puppy sitting her dog, she surprises me ...

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Old 8th July 2011   #1 (permalink)
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Cool New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

My sister has been asking me suspicious questions for about 2 weeks. After puppy sitting her dog, she surprises me with a cooler with 3 newts. that she swears the store she bought them from they are captive bred, i highly doubt it though. any how she brought me

1)an adult male with a healed nic on his tail so he's very easy to identify, he's got some meat on him so I imagine he's in pretty good condition.

2) a very feisty juvinile/young adult - it goes in the water and hangs out on the surface of plants, haven't seen it dive yet. Very good eater!

3) another slightly larger juvenile(?) with what looks to be a possibly broken leg. s/he has a cut on his back knee, the leg is very swollen and it looks like you can see inside and see fluid build up? s/he moves the leg some but half the time just sort of drags it. Also it's white, not fuzzy or hairy or anything like that though, maybe just salamander meat? s/he's pretty still and doesn't want anything to do with the water, although I think it ate one or two live tubifex worms.

is it infected? if so what do I do!? Should I isolate him/her futher?

Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.




here they are in their quarantine tank. A little 2.5 gallon with a sponge filter, sponge log and plant. inside of a foam cooler with ice / icy water at the moment :P

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Old 8th July 2011   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

I can't tell you much but I'd isolate him/her alone if I were you. Someone else can make the diagnosis.



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Old 8th July 2011   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

Sadly, the third newt has an infection. The usual treatment for this kind of infection is either salt baths or neosporin (without painkillers). There are other alternatives. You can find further info around the forum as this is unfortunately a common ocurrence. Check the CC articles too for more details on treatments.



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Old 8th July 2011   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

Yes, separate it. I would keep it either on paper towels or in shallow water if it wants to be aquatic. Try to keep it as cool as possible (I have had success with similar infections with newts kept at around 12-15C, but cooler would be good, too). I treated with Neosporin, but had to mix it with a white cream base (zinc something; you can buy the stuff from chemists for making up one's own creams) to get it to stick to the newt. Other people don't seem to have a problem with this, but I'm not sure how they do it! I also gently cleaned the wound with a damp cotton bud at first, to remove gunk, but stopped this once it stopped getting bigger and started healing (so I didn't remove healing tissue).

Keep giving the animal food. In my experience, the newts settled down and fed well despite having lesions, and food will really help. The food must wriggle to get their attention. Chopped earthworms are a good bet, avoid crickets incase they nibble the newts. Don't watch to see if they eat, just put the pieces of worm underneath the hide with the newt and check the next day for any faeces or uneaten food.

Change the paper towels frequently. I use two identical containers and set one up with fresh towels and quickly move the newts across, so they don't have to wait in a holding tank. I think this reduces stress. Clean dirty tanks out with some form of disinfectant - F10 (1:500 with water) is a good bet, but I've also used bleach and Dettol antibacterial spray with a THOROUGH wash afterwards. Also make sure that the hospital tank is well ventilated - the substrate must stay damp, but the air mustn't be stale. You don't want the wound to 'sweat' - letting it air dry (without desiccating the newt, of course) will help it heal, so you want good humidity but also good ventilation.

Also, watch the other newts. Mine all developed their lesions after coming home, so keep an eye on the other newts. The elbows/knees, top of the hear and sides of the base of the tail are particularly common sites for ulcers, although they can develop anywhere.

Hope that helps and you can get the animal back to health.

Chris



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Old 8th July 2011   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the advice so far!

I seperated him this morning. Papertowel in a small tub. Since its friday I will be doing a thourough cleaning of the tank he was in out of cauton for my other two.

I will hunt down some neosporin and see about salt baths.

I'll keep this updated.
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Old 11th July 2011   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

I don't think salt baths are a good idea in this case. They are usually used for fungal infections, which this almost certainly isn't, and can be quite stressful. I would use the Neosporin (without painkillers) and keep it cool and fed and see what happens. Try to avoid handling/disturbing it as much as possible as this will stress it. Make sure it has a dark hide on the paper towels, preferably something easily washable, like plastic. If possible, put the tub on a slope with a hide at each end, so it can choose between drier and wetter substrate, or put a hide on top of the first hide so that it can climb up to be drier if it wants.

Good luck, and keep a close eye on the others for a couple of months in case they come down with sores, too.

C



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Old 11th July 2011   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

I only mentioned salt baths because i know they have been used to treat bacterial infections too, but yes, antibiotics are a better choice, even more so since the animal is terrestrial.
I´d advice you to move the other to to a larger tank. The tiny volume of water you have them in, with a current and no live plants requires A LOT of maintenance to work and even then is likely to cause further stress. A larger volume (10 gallons minimum) with no filter (they do not apreciate currents at all) and lots of live plants will provide a much more stable environment which will reduce stress and help them recover from the hell they´ve been through.
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Old 11th July 2011   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

Sorry, I didn't mean to contradict you so directly, Rodrigo - I have had experience of salt baths causing a lot of stress in this species, particularly as new imports. If you can't get the Neosporin, salt baths, or cleaning the wound itself with salt water, is better than nothing.

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Old 11th July 2011   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

No problem, i think you were right to!
Mentioning salt baths is kind of a reflex, but for a terrestrial, seriously stressed animal it´s not a great idea. Avoiding stress is just as important as treating the infection.



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Old 12th July 2011   #10 (permalink)
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Humm i might try the salt rinse/swab. I've been neosporning him since i posted (once or twice a day) , i don't see much if any improvement in the wound, he actually is using the limb less, but is much more active and ate a relative heap of tubifex worms today.

Should i not put neosporin so often and let the wound breath more?

I also change his paper towel every day.

Any additional suggestions?

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Old 12th July 2011   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

If he is eating you are on the right path, good job!!!



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Old 12th July 2011   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

Question to the experts, could betadine be used on the wound with a cotton swab, since it works marvels on many animals?
This is NOT a suggestion, it's a question.



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Old 12th July 2011   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

I think the important thing here is that these ulcers in newly imported newts are probably the result of systemic problems brought on due to immune suppression through stress. Treating the ulcer itself will not completely help the problem, as it isn't just a local issue. Treating with neosporin or similar, keeping the animal cool, providing plenty of food and a little bit of luck may work (it did for me), but the best thing would be systemic antibiotics from a vet (or at least this is what Wright and Whitaker's amphibian medicine book says, along with some other vet papers). If the animal can survive long enough to get its immune system back on line, it should survive.

In the past, I have used neosporin once a day with success. If you can get it silver suphurdiazine ('flamazine') cream, sold for burn treatment, seems to help, too. It is usually prescription only, though.

C



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Old 13th July 2011   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

Upon a closer inspection ( I think time is also allowing me to see more) His leg is broken, it's an open fracture where the bone is sticking out, the bottom half of his still alive but utterly useless.

I live in a really small town where all the vets are dog, cat, horse vets. My dog vet may be open to helping but I'm not too sure.

So what I am asking is, what should I do about his leg?! Is amputation something I should attempt?! if so if someone could give me some literature about doing so it would be very appreciated.

I'll be looking into getting that silver...stuff, is it like silvadine? (not that I have any but I've had to use it before)

I wont be doing anything before getting feedback.



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Old 13th July 2011   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

If there is an open fracture, you need to get a vet to amputate, I think, particularly given it looks infected as well. It should be relatively simple, so the vet may be able to read up on how to do it. I wouldn't hold out too much hope, though, as recovery will be tough for a newt already so stressed. If you leave it, the leg may die and drop off, or it may cause sepsis/gangrene....

You could attempt it with a very sharp, sterile, pair of scissors, but it will be very painful for the animal.

Yeah, Silvadine is another name for the sliver sulphurdiazine. I'm not sure how useful it will be if there is an open fracture.



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Old 29th August 2011   #16 (permalink)
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Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.

I just wanted to update. I ended up amputating his leg myself. I felt horrible but it was in his best intrest kept him super cold and neosporinef twice a day for almost a month until it was all closed up. Now it has started to actually re grow! Grew a little past the knee and now has little toe nubbins. He gets fed every third day but is still on the thin side prob cuz he's still regenerating. Towel gets changed when he eats.

I'm tempted to call him Mr stubby but that might be mean especially since he's been such a trooper.

Also I think it might be a girl lol.

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Old 30th August 2011   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

I had a baby newt escape and dry up, I found her and wet her down, and so on...
her back leg came off... dried up too much, and her fingers, she had no feet...
It infected... I dipped her in amoxicillin powder from a capsule. (fish-mox) and soaked her in it. She had no tail left... no eyesight that I could tell...
She hunted and captured a fruit fly while blind!

That was about 4 years ago. She has all her feet and a nice tail and she's really big... her toes are a bit different and a slight bit shorter than they would have been and she has a darker circle on her head like a scar. she eats every day and lays eggs. I feed mine bloodworms, every day. If I miss a day they act like they're starving.
I've had this family of Newts for almost 10 years.

This one is named BackPacker, because of her trip out of the tank. :)
Your's might not be so stubby in the end.



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Old 30th August 2011   #18 (permalink)
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Wow, That's a tough newt! That's pretty impressive. Backpacker is a cute name.

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Old 30th August 2011   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: New newt suprise! Is this infected/fungused??

Quote:
Originally Posted by suztor View Post
Wow, That's a tough newt! That's pretty impressive. Backpacker is a cute name.

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:) I don't know if it'll let me post my link, but this is to a photo album of my newts, they're too cute for words.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...9411.583004339



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