Fire Belly Newts In A 30 Gall

[Elegy]

First post, heres hoping I dont mess it up :P


Anyways, I recently feel in love with Fire Bellied Newts that my local LPS had and wanted to have a 10 gallon with them but then I started looking into different tank set ups and one thing led to another and now I want to dedicate my 30 gallon breeder to them and make a full fledged Paludarium (not sure if thats the right term...) for them.

Im still in the extensive research part of the project since this is all new ground to me, I'm a fish person. So right now I just have an empty tank, sand, and plant clippings from my other aquariums at my disposal.


I'd like to know:

1. How many fire belly newts can I fit in a 30 gallon breeder? (36"L x 18"H x 12"D) Water will be about 8 inches high give or take. I plan to understock, just want to know my limit.

2. Any plants that shouldnt be used or ones I should generally stay away from?

3. Are there any flowering terrestrial plants the would be suitable for this kind of set up? I'd like a splash of color here and there, want it to be pretty and all :P




I think thats it, I'll probably think of more

[Jennewt]

Bravo to you for doing the research before buying! First you need to be sure what the species is, and whether you want to support the global trade in wild-caught amphibians. There are several species that are sold as "firebellied newts", and they vary widely in their requirements. See:
Caudata Culture Articles - Firebelly
If they are selling paddletail firebellies, for example, you'd do best with only one. Also consider the possibility of getting into amphibians by obtaining captive-bred ones. This is not as easy as going to the LFS, but might be worth considering.

You can find some posts and info about plants to get you started here:
Vivaria, Enclosures & Product Reviews - Plants for Enclosures and Vivariums at Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Portal
Offhand I don't know of any good vivarium plants that would produce flowers. For inspiration, you could try looking through the catalog at Black Jungle Terrarium Supply (you can google them).

[Rodrigo]

I strongly second Jen´s advice.
Although buying the newts from a shop is the easiest way, you will be acquiring animals that at the very least are highly stressed (and depending on the species likely to go terrestrial), and at worst, terminally ill.
Like Jen pointed out, it also means supporting the WC market and indirectly causing more animals to suffer the same fate.

By obtaining CB animals you would get animals without affecting wild populations, plus they will be already used to captivity. The range of available species is also much larger.

Consider that most available newt species are 100% aquatic in captivity, or nearly so. That means that elaborate and extensive terrestrial areas are generally a waste of species. They only require a piece of floating cork bark at most, and that allows you to dramatically increase the volume of water by taking advantage of the whole volume. The larger the volume of water, the more stable and the easier it will be to maintain. This will make things better for you and for the newts, since with such a large volume (close to 30 gallons) maintenance requirements could be almost inexistent.

I would also like to congratulate you for researching before buying!

[Elegy]

Originally Posted by Jennewt

Bravo to you for doing the research before buying! First you need to be sure what the species is, and whether you want to support the global trade in wild-caught amphibians. There are several species that are sold as "firebellied newts", and they vary widely in their requirements. See:
Caudata Culture Articles - Firebelly
If they are selling paddletail firebellies, for example, you'd do best with only one. Also consider the possibility of getting into amphibians by obtaining captive-bred ones. This is not as easy as going to the LFS, but might be worth considering.

You can find some posts and info about plants to get you started here:
Vivaria, Enclosures & Product Reviews - Plants for Enclosures and Vivariums at Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Portal
Offhand I don't know of any good vivarium plants that would produce flowers. For inspiration, you could try looking through the catalog at Black Jungle Terrarium Supply (you can google them).

The ones I'll be getting are the Chinese Fire Bellied newts, Cynops orientalis. From what I see they can be housed together ok, but still, I dont want to overcrowd!
After reading/researching I'll be looking into getting some that have been captive bred, though I'm not sure about how I'll be able to get them, shipping might rack up the price out of my price range but still, its in the semi-far off future so I have a chance to save.
The pet store I saw them at is one I'm familiar with so I'll check and see if they are wild caught. I'm really good friends with everyone that works there so I know theyll tell me the truth. They dont have to worry about making a sale with me, I have yet to go in without buying anything :P Pretty sure I heard that someone brings them in a 5 gallon bucket and I dont /think/ you can catch them around here so its a possibility that that person bred them but the price is around 3$-4$ so who knows -shrugs-

Thank you for linking me! I have yet to explore that part of the forums so I'm sure I'll be perusing over there for the next couple of hours

Originally Posted by Azhael

I strongly second Jen´s advice.
Although buying the newts from a shop is the easiest way, you will be acquiring animals that at the very least are highly stressed (and depending on the species likely to go terrestrial), and at worst, terminally ill.
Like Jen pointed out, it also means supporting the WC market and indirectly causing more animals to suffer the same fate.

By obtaining CB animals you would get animals without affecting wild populations, plus they will be already used to captivity. The range of available species is also much larger.

Consider that most available newt species are 100% aquatic in captivity, or nearly so. That means that elaborate and extensive terrestrial areas are generally a waste of species. They only require a piece of floating cork bark at most, and that allows you to dramatically increase the volume of water by taking advantage of the whole volume. The larger the volume of water, the more stable and the easier it will be to maintain. This will make things better for you and for the newts, since with such a large volume (close to 30 gallons) maintenance requirements could be almost inexistent.

I would also like to congratulate you for researching before buying!

Thank you, I definitely do want to find some captive bred. I'll be looking at all my options before getting the pet shop ones as a last resort.

I realize that they are generally aquatic, the land parts will be for me to enjoy 8D
For the most part, this will be a fully aquatic set up, either with terrestrial plants growing out of the back wall above the water or having "shelves" that will be above water. I'm more familiar with the aquatic parts of these so I'll primarily be focusing on it

[Jennewt]

Given that they are Chinese FB, you could easily have a dozen in a tank that size. Since you want to understock, you could consider about 5-6 to be a good number.

Regarding having an extensive land area, you are likely to encounter a behavioral quirk of CFB: even if the animals appear to be water-adapted when you get them, some of them (maybe all of them) are likely to become terrestrial when they are provided with a nice land area that contains hiding places. This is perfectly normal, but many people prefer them to be aquatic and have difficulty providing suitable land-based foods.

Another consideration is what will be the typical summer/winter temperatures in the setup? For optimal care of the newts, cold is good, hot is bad. If summer temps will be over 75F, you might want to consider some type of frog instead of newts.

While I believe your pet shop will tell you what they know, consider that their supplier isn't necessarily telling them the full truth. As a breeder, I can tell you that (1) no amphibian breeder sells significant numbers of adult animals (they sell juveniles), and (2) no breeder sells animals at a wholesale price of < $3. Lots of importers do deliver wild-caught newts at < $3 ea. So you can use your own logic in determining the source of the animals.

Best of luck to you!

[Elegy]

Originally Posted by Jennewt

Given that they are Chinese FB, you could easily have a dozen in a tank that size. Since you want to understock, you could consider about 5-6 to be a good number.

Regarding having an extensive land area, you are likely to encounter a behavioral quirk of CFB: even if the animals appear to be water-adapted when you get them, some of them (maybe all of them) are likely to become terrestrial when they are provided with a nice land area that contains hiding places. This is perfectly normal, but many people prefer them to be aquatic and have difficulty providing suitable land-based foods.

Another consideration is what will be the typical summer/winter temperatures in the setup? For optimal care of the newts, cold is good, hot is bad. If summer temps will be over 75F, you might want to consider some type of frog instead of newts.

While I believe your pet shop will tell you what they know, consider that their supplier isn't necessarily telling them the full truth. As a breeder, I can tell you that (1) no amphibian breeder sells significant numbers of adult animals (they sell juveniles), and (2) no breeder sells animals at a wholesale price of < $3. Lots of importers do deliver wild-caught newts at < $3 ea. So you can use your own logic in determining the source of the animals.

Best of luck to you!

5-6 would be good :)

Good to know that some can become terrestrial, it saves me from posting in a panic in the future if they start doing it.

my house is 70-72 degrees year round, my brother likes it frigid, regardless of electric bill lol. I monitor my cold water fish tanks and the stay at about 68-70 year round, highest Ive seen was 72 and that was because i left the window open ^^;

I will most definitely do more research about the source of the newts before purchasing any livestock. thank you for all the help!

[Rodrigo]

Yeah, the newts at that shop are definitely WC, no doubt about it.
Given that your temps year-round are slightly on the high side, you may want to consider a species that is somewhat more tolerant. Hypselotriton cyanurus may be ideal for you. Cynops pyrrhogaster is also a wonderful species and highly recommendable.
If you do a search, you´ll find plenty of threads with species that are recommended for beginners, all of them are wonderful and fascinating and are relatively easy to find from breeders (some more than others).

Good luck!

[Elegy]

Originally Posted by Azhael

Yeah, the newts at that shop are definitely WC, no doubt about it.
Given that your temps year-round are slightly on the high side, you may want to consider a species that is somewhat more tolerant. Hypselotriton cyanurus may be ideal for you. Cynops pyrrhogaster is also a wonderful species and highly recommendable.
If you do a search, you´ll find plenty of threads with species that are recommended for beginners, all of them are wonderful and fascinating and are relatively easy to find from breeders (some more than others).

Good luck!

I will definitely look into them, thank you for the suggestion!