Beginners questions about fire belly newts?

[iamtheguy]

I am considering of getting two or three fire belly newts in my 20 gallon vivarium tank setup. I've been doing lots of research but I couldn't find out these questions:

1) Do they get sick or deseases often? I would change the water once every week or so.

2) Besides the water temp. are they very nice and hardy animals?

3) do they need a vitamin D3 suppliment, if so how often?

4) Can they survive in 74 degrees F (23 Degrees celsious) My tank always remains at that specific temperature.

5) Ive read every where that they can eat freeze dried bloodworms. If needed I can occasionaly find worms in my backyard (or buy them) and chop them up to feed them

6) In general are they good pets to have? Like did you enjoy having them as an interesting pet (i know that they are not to be held but interms as watching them)

[Rodrigo]

Ok, let´s see.

Adult animals offered at shops, shows, etc, are all wild-caught. The process of importation is a hazardous thing that takes the lives of many animals and leaves the rest highly stressed and exposed. Pet-shops typically only make things even worse. By the time you buy them, many are verys seriously ill, and all of them are stressed and vulnerable. Also, by buying WC animals you are supporting a market that takes the lives of countless animals each year and causes damage to wild populations.
Finding captive-bred animals can require patience, and since they are typically offered as small juveniles, they are not the easiest species to raise, specially without previous experience dealing with tiny juveniles.

In optimal conditions, adults are VERY hardy and easy to keep.

If the diet is good, no supplements are required. This species seems to be less prone to dietary deficiencies than others.

23ºC is tolerable for relatively short periods of time, but if it´s constant, it´s risky. The ideal temps are below 20ºC, with a drop during winter.

Freeze dried bloodworms are rubbish....they´ll eat them, but it´s like feeding them paper. Frozen bloodworms are much better but can´t be used as a staple. Earthworms should be the main item in their diet.

You might do well in considering other species. There are some which are more heat tolerant but equally hardy and interesting, like Pleurodeles waltl, Cynops pyrrhogaster, Hypselotriton cyanurus...
However, the 23ºC minimum is no good....if you are serious about wanting to keep caudates you should look into ways of providing adequate temps.

[iamtheguy]

Yea, sorry I meant frozen bloodworms.

[jane1187]

Ok well I have fire bellies(C/H orientalis), they were my first and will remain my alltime favourites. I agree with what has already been said but here are my answers to your questions. If you can get a tank with a lower temperature then here are my tips:

1) They are a hardy and tolerant species and will only get ill if the water or temperature conditions are inadequate, or if a disease is introduced. They are considered a good starter caudate for these reasons.

2) Other than what I said in question 1 yes they have spectacular bright red bellies and are real characters, so an attractive species.

3) Supplements are not often necessary and are difficult to administer as these are pretty much 100% aquatic and rarely choose land areas if provided (in my experience anyway). In this case foods which are provided in the water are difficult to dust with supplement. If you were to culture your own worms or whiteworms for example giving the worms a good diet would help the newts. Commercial newt pellets are often fortified with vitamins and minerals so you could introduce these as part of their diet.

4) That temperature is too high for all year round. In the summer they can tolerate temperatures up to that high during the day every so often (luckily here in the UK its not often that warm!). As azhaezel said cooler temperatures below 20 degrees, and perhaps colder during the winter, are better. Why is it a constant 23 degrees? Would they be in a reptile room with regulated temperature? If you needed a species that could tolerate this I would try something different (though your choice is limited, T. verrucosus can tolerate those temperatures fairly happily for breeding but will require a cool off in the winter). I'd try putting your tank somewhere cooler.

5) They can eat freeze dired bloodworms but they do not like them (in my experience) and much prefer frozen bloodworm (which are more palatable). They will take chopped earthworms too but remember this is a relatively small species so relatively small pieces. They will also take commercial newt pellets as previously mentioned, but pellets should not really be a staple, just an addition to the diet. Make sure you buy a brand that has all the extra vitamins added to it.

6) I think they are a fabulous pet and are very active. They are still my favourites and I would recommend them to anyone.

I would also recommend you check out this page on caudata culture as it explains their care pretty well - Caudata Culture Species Entry - Cynops orientalis - Chinese firebelly

I do disagree about the land area, I have a piece of floating cork bark in mine but in 5 years not one of my 8 has ever used it. You mentioned you have a vivarium but you'll need to use it more like a fish tank and provide a very large water area. Don;t forget that it needs to be escape proof too.

Hope this helps and doesn't put you off as they're a great species to get you started in caudates.

[iamtheguy]

I have some places where they can stand. But it is mostly water, there are shallow and deeper parts. Now I think I should get a heater

[Rodrigo]

Did you mean chiller?
A heater is the last thing you need.

The minimum volume of water for even one individual of a small species like Hypselotriton orientalis, is about 10 gallons. However, a larger volume is always a good thing. Keep this in mind.
Post a picture of your tank if you can, it will help provide better advice.
Because of the wild-caught origin of all comercial H.orientalis, i suggest you look into H.cyanurus, for example. Essentially the same, except a bit more colourful and tolerant to the higher expectrum of temps. H.cyanurus can be acquired from breeders and the juveniles are just as easy to raise as the adults, unlike in H.orientalis.

[iamtheguy]

Yes a chiller! thats what I meant. I currenty have the rocks, the water the plants all that. I am designing a nice filter and waterfall. It isnt finished yet but I have the basic outline. I will try to post pictures a.s.a.p. currently I don't have anything lliving in it but panning on so in a little whie

[iamtheguy]

Here is the picture, My vivarium isnt completed yet I still have to include the filter and the water fall But this is the basic outline:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1033861...47393515008226

[Rodrigo]

Can´t access the pictures.
Please upload them using the attachments option that appears in the additional options.
Filters generate heat, which is not something that you want, plus if you intend to purchase H.orientalis, it´s a species that dislikes currents and much prefers still waters. You can completely substitute a filter with large amounts of live plants. A heavily planted, cycled tank will deal with any nitrogen compounds that are produced, without extra heat or a current. As a plus, H.orientalis LOVES hiding in densely planted areas.

[iamtheguy]

Where can I find the additional options? How many live plants do you mean? I have Four plants for in it, I am considering java fern or java moss

[Rodrigo]

When you are writing a new post, below the text slot. It says "manage attachments".
You can use the search function to find threads where people show their tanks. Some of those threads are of people who stock their tanks very heavily with plants. It´s not a matter of number of plants, but rather of mass. Ideally, for this species, most of the volume should be occupied by one plant or another.

[iamtheguy]

These are the pictures, The attatchment links didnt work so i tried doing this. Sorry I got to you so late:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1033861...O2n34a786vMeA#

[jane1187]

Azhael's right I wouldn't bother with the filter, maybe if you really wanted one a sponge filter that uses an air bubbler so that you can set the air flow to low using a restrictor. This will keep the water flow low but will stop the water going stagnant. The waterfall is an additional feature but again a high flow rate won't be appreciated so if its flow can be very reduced then that should be tolerable. Don't use both though. As I said a little water flow is tolerated but not much. In my tank I have an air stone and that is it.

The tank looks ok so far but yes, more plants, even if they are fake ones. Elodea (we call it canadian pond weed here) is a good plant for creating lots of vegetation for the newts. Java moss will work well too.

Post us more pictures as you go along. We're glad to help

[Rodrigo]

I strongly recommend not using gravel. The smaller pieces could be swallowed, with dire consequences, and even the large rocks are not a good ideas sthey will trap huuuuuuge amounts of debris and make feeding very difficult. Fine sand, or no substrate, are far superios options.
I´ll remind you, again, that the minimum volume of water should be 10 gallons. Anything less will provide terrible stability and make maintaining water quality almost impossible.
Read the Caudata Culture articles...there you´ll find everything you need to know, about substrates, water quality, cycling...

[iamtheguy]

Thanks foor all the advice guys! I will keep you guys updated. I was just finishing the waterfall off

[Rodrigo]

You´d be better off without it. The newts prefer no movement in the water at all.
Also, not having the waterfall would allow you to increase the water volume, which is a MUST. As it is now, it´s entirely insufficient.

[iamtheguy]

Okay.

[iamtheguy]

Also, I was wondering, what other thing can I use besides rocks, I have heard of turtle docks but what else?

[jane1187]

Originally Posted by iamtheguy

Also, I was wondering, what other thing can I use besides rocks, I have heard of turtle docks but what else?

Turtle docks are ok, they provide a land area without sacrificing water space. This is most important with such an aquatic species. I use cork bark too as it floats and it looks more natural. I drill a hole onto one side and attach a replacement thermostat holder (basically a ring with a sucker) to it to hold it in place in the tank. However, cork bark can leak some tannins and make your tank blackwater, but I don't mind.

Alternatively some people use floating polystyrene-type land areas which you can make look realistic using silicone and sand. i'm afraid I have no links to hand for threads about making these but maybe someone else can post a link on.

One tank I have has a very large ornamental cave, the top of which pokes out above the water. You could buy or even make something similar. Creating a large rock cave out of large rocks or bricks with a slate top (preferably held together with silicone to stop the cave collapsing) with the slate reaching above the water is also a good idea.

Hope these ideas help.

[iamtheguy]

Thx, I decided to make like a smaller land space. Once Im finished i'll post another picture