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License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

This is a discussion on License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk within the Axolotls (Ambystoma mexicanum) forums, part of the Beginner Newt, Salamander, Axolotl & Help Topics category; I have found out to my cost that if you sell an axolotl for money you are classed as a ...

Axolotls (Ambystoma mexicanum) A dedicated topic for those seeking help with Axolotls, showing off your photos, or just to talk about them.

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Old 26th January 2012   #1 (permalink)
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Default License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

I have found out to my cost that if you sell an axolotl for money you are classed as a business and therefore require a license to trade. It does not matter if you are making a profit or not.

Whether it is eggs, hatchlings, Juveniles or adults you require a pet shop licence costing around £100 from the local council.

The license is valid for one year January - December.

If you get caught selling axolotls without the license then penalties quite strict.ie, a hefty fine.

It does not matter if your a private individual or a business you still need the license.
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Old 26th January 2012   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

Steven, do you have any documentation to back this up? I'm sure there are written statutes and such. It would be valuable to know!
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Old 26th January 2012   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

It is part of the Pet Animals Act 19511951 CHAPTER 35 14 and 15 Geo 6
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/14-15/35

Pet shop licence (England, Scotland & Wales) | Business Link

Manchester specifically specifies private dwelling
Pet Shop Licence - Manchester City Council

"A licence is required for the sale of animals as pets. The keeping of a pet shop is defined as the carrying on at premises of any nature (including a private dwelling) of a business of selling animals as pets, including selling animals over the internet. "

If you keep a pet shop without a licence or fail to comply with any conditions in your licence, you may be fined up to £500, imprisoned for up to three months, or both. You may also have your licence cancelled.
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Old 26th January 2012   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

The link from Manchester council says:

"Where a person is keeping or selling pedigree animals bred by him, or the offspring of an animal kept by him as a pet, then he does not need a pet shop licence."

So why would you need a petshop licence to sell axolotl eggs?

Have you got any more details of your case? Did your neighbours complain?
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Old 26th January 2012   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

It doesn't surprise me...you need a licence when u breed to sell dogs and I have to have a licence for the horses. I'll be buying a licence just to own my dog next lol
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Old 26th January 2012   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

You only need a licence to breed dogs for sale if you produce more than 5 litters a year:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...blishments-etc

I can remember when you did need a licence to own a dog in the UK- it was abolished in 1987. At that point the licence cost 37p, and an awful lot of people didn't bother.
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Old 26th January 2012   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

Sorry Steven, but Caleb is correct. If someone tried to fine you for selling axolotls then you should have fought it. Having lived in England in the 2000s for several years, I speak from experience too.
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Old 27th January 2012   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

Sorry I cannot go into specifics over my case for legal reasons.

I was selling axolotls through Preloved, someone contacted me saying they were interested so gave my address and arranged a time. Well they turned out to local licence officers from Chelsea Borough Council along with an animal welfare inspector.

The inspector has no issues with the welfare of the animals however was fined by the licence officer for not having a licence, plus had to buy a licence too.

The jist of it is an axolotl whether eggs or grown is classed as an animal that has a backbone therefore is required to have a retail licence if money passes hands. A petshop licence is just a generic term, as it covers anyone selling an animal whether you are a business or a private individual.

I have been told off the record that local councils are cracking down on people not having licences and more covert raids like this will be done. they also said if you have a cat and she has kittens say two kittens and you sell one of them for cash your still flouting the law if you do not have a petshop licence.
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Old 27th January 2012   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

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Originally Posted by stevenwignet View Post
The jist of it is an axolotl whether eggs or grown is classed as an animal that has a backbone therefore is required to have a retail licence if money passes hands. A petshop licence is just a generic term, as it covers anyone selling an animal whether you are a business or a private individual.
As others have said, this is incorrect. A license is not required to sell offspring of your pets in the UK. I guess there is something of a grey area over the definition of "pet". At what point do those breeding animals stop being pets and become a business? Clearly in your case it was deemed they were not pets.
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Old 27th January 2012   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

How many axolotl do you use to breed from?
My other thought is , is there any possibility that these people where not from the council ?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/14-15/35
I could be very wrong here, but it looks like it refers to the selling of pedigree animals, in section 3 (7) it says:-

“pedigree animal” means an animal of any description which is by its breeding eligible for registration with a recognised club or society keeping a register of animals of that description;

Last edited by bellabelloo; 27th January 2012 at 09:06. Reason: Trying to understand explain what I read...badly
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Old 27th January 2012   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

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Originally Posted by bellabelloo View Post
How many axolotl do you use to breed from?
My other thought is , is there any possibility that these people where not from the council ?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/14-15/35
I could be very wrong here, but it looks like it refers to the selling of pedigree animals, in section 3 (7) it says:-

“pedigree animal” means an animal of any description which is by its breeding eligible for registration with a recognised club or society keeping a register of animals of that description;
I was quoting the 1951 pets act not the specific page

i breed from two pairs which i have had for 10 years.
yes they were from the council 100% sure about that, met the following day in the office to pay the fine and buy the licence.
I have opportunity of challenging it at court but that could mean a much larger fine if they go in favor of the council rather than me.
I sell axys but never for a profit always for a break even price.
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Old 29th June 2012   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

This has worried me a bit as I am about to advertise my young axolotls. I didn't breed them on purpose but now they are here I need to rehome them. I have looked up the Pet Animals Act 1951, Chapter 35 14 and 15 Geo 6
An Act to regulate the sale of pet animals (22nd June 1951)

which says

7 Interpretation.
(1) (a) A person shall not be deemed to keep a pet shop by reason only of his keeping or selling pedigree animals bred by him or the offspring of an animal kept by him as a pet.

Surely that means we don't need a licence?
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Old 29th June 2012   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

You don't need a bloody license. Steven was scammed by an over zealous council employee. Quote the act back to them if anyone says anything to you. If that won't work, tell them you will be in touch with your solicitor about the matter and the harassment case you intend to bring against the council due to the distress they have caused you with their nonsense allegations. Get the name of a local solicitor right now so you can drop it on anyone in case the council happened to show up. You would be amazed how quickly they will change their tune if they think you mean business. Make sure to get the full names of anyone who shows up and be sure to tell them they will be named on the harassment suit as well.
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Old 12th July 2012   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

It seems to be a slightly grey area that councils are taking advantage of. I know of someone selling fish, he's a hobbyist who sells off fry. He was made to get a licence from his local coucil too and they told him that basically anyone selling fish, even if its a few guppy fry, should have a licence
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Old 12th July 2012   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

This cannot be roght or fair We should fight it.
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Old 28th July 2012   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

Steven is right you do need a licence to breed and sell to the public. If you don't have one they see it as unregulated breeding of livestock and also tax evasion as its undeclared income. This is a shame, as we are all aware that the basis for this isn't for welfare but tax for local councils. I don't think there would be anything we could do about this as the councils will just put it down to welfare
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Old 28th July 2012   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

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Steven is right you do need a licence to breed and sell to the public.
No you don't.

Quote:
(a)a person shall not be deemed to keep a pet shop by reason only of his keeping or selling pedigree animals bred by him, or the offspring of an animal kept by him as a pet;
Pet Animals Act 1951

It's pretty simple - if you have pets and they breed you do not need a license. If you sell animals bred by others you will need a licence.
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Old 28th July 2012   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

Literally thousands of people advertise and sell puppies every year (yes THOUSANDS) and people regularly sell puppies that are not KC registered, so wouldn't be registered as a 'pedigree pet'. The RSPCA themselves should be able to clear this up as they deal with all sorts of legalities of pets. I will write to them and ask. I imagine if your animals accidentally have babies (your gerbils for example which are sold to you as two girls, actually turn out to be boy/girl), surely the law should be on the side of the person trying to rehome their unwanted offspring rather than keeping animals they cannot care for.

As I said I am interested by this case (and I would challenge the fine if I were you) and am going to contact the RSPCA to find out the legalities of selling your unwanted pets. I am intregued and will endeavour to find out more.

If the councellors were correct then we have a serious problem with the legal system which, if enforced properly, would lead to thousands, if not millions, of abandoned pets each year from people who cannot afford to buy the pet shop license to sell the offspring of their accidentally knocked up hamster.

This post was not in reply to anyone in particular so please don't take offence. I just cannot believe that this is true and am going to investigate to see if the councillors are correct.
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Old 28th July 2012   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

I totally agree and the issue of paying tax is nothing to do with it. Who says it is going to be undeclared income anyway?
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Old 29th July 2012   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: License required to sell Axolotls in the Uk

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If the councellors were correct then we have a serious problem with the legal system which, if enforced properly, would lead to thousands, if not millions, of abandoned pets each year from people who cannot afford to buy the pet shop license to sell the offspring of their accidentally knocked up hamster.
Without wanting to sound like a broken record, the Pet Animals Act clearly states that private breedings from pets are not included. What isn't clear is at what point does a pet become a business venture. One breeding pair of axolotls is very different to 200 pairs with regular income from the sale of the offspring. I suspect if the authorities feel you are running a commercial venture they may ask to see your license and if your house is full of tanks with thousands of axolotls you're going to have a hard time proving they're all pets.
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