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Very strange Axolotl color morph...

This is a discussion on Very strange Axolotl color morph... within the Axolotl General Discussion forums, part of the Axolotls (Ambystoma mexicanum) category; could the pigment differences in the gills be effecting their ability to pick up oxygen from the water this would ...

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Old 12th August 2007   #61 (permalink)
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could the pigment differences in the gills be effecting their ability to pick up oxygen from the water this would cause the difference in size wouldnt it (one compensating for the other). Though from the older pics the size difference isnt so obvious.



ps he is really lucky to have you rather than someone else who wouldnt know what a special axie they have.



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Old 12th August 2007   #62 (permalink)
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He's looking good. The colour's a lot like the "marble" patterning the shows up in a lot of aquarium fish (bettas, angelfish etc).



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Old 8th September 2007   #63 (permalink)
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ps he is really lucky to have you rather than someone else who wouldnt know what a special axie they have.
Thanks Carrie! I baby this one!



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Old 30th September 2007   #64 (permalink)
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Pirate Gary’s swashbuckling garb looks more interesting than a chimera or mosaic. Here’s my attempt at diagnosis for any geneticists out there to shoot down if wrong. The first rule of genetic counselling is to look at the family.

Your male white albino parent has two defective pigment production genes and two defective pigment distribution genes (white/leucistic). The wild type female has two normal copies of the pigment production gene and one defective pigment distribution gene. This is why you have 250 normal and 250 leucistic siblings.

This is exactly the sort of cross which exposes in the first generation mutations which would be hidden by being recessive in the wild type.

The single albino can be explained by a new mutation in the formerly normal pigment production copy of that animal resulting in two defective copies and no pigmentation. Many genes mutate at rates of about one in a thousand.

The early pictures of Gary were plausible as a mosaic of albino on a leucistic background and the two mechanisms for how the mosaicism originated have been proposed by others: Both are plausible explanations for Gary on his own but seem unlikely when you consider parents and siblings.

Mechanism 1 - two eggs have become entrapped in the same gel coat and have merged to become a chimera. If this happened between two normal or two leucistic eggs no one would notice, except perhaps if they spotted a hermaphrodite if the eggs were of different sex. If Gary is this sort of chimera he should be a patchwork of normal and leucistic. It seems to me he does not fit this description and you have to start proposing a third improbable event to explain the pure albino bit.

Mechanism 2 is that just like an albino mutant has occurred in one sibling in Gary it occurred in an early cell division, resulting in a white patch on a leucistic individual.
This is plausible and totally satisfying until you see the later pictures. The non albino bits are not leucistic, neither are they normal. Further there is a change in growth associated with the white area.

My favoured opinion is Gary has a new pigment distribution mutation in what should have been the normal copy of the gene and it is exposed by being paired with the leucistic gene from his father.

In summary I am with those that Gary has an abnormal gene in every cell of his body and his markings are like the marble pattern on some fish. He reminds me of a Koi carp. If this opinion is correct it is for the discoverer-you to propose its name but pirate sounds fine to me.

I suggest that in due course you backcross Gary with his parent and then leucistic and normal siblings. Keep records and note what the ordinary ones are as well as the rarities. If none of these crosses produce a pirate fleet you do have a chimera after all but personally I will be disappointed. Gary is obviously viable. He may not be fertile; those small gills worry me a bit that there could be other organ abnormalities. Good luck!



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Old 6th October 2007   #65 (permalink)
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First time I've seen this post - good read and a great looking Axolotl!



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Old 10th October 2007   #66 (permalink)
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First ive seen this too. Garys a cracker....its lovely to see how its grown and developed. The colours are gorgeous. My only hope is that the one side isnt underdeveloped to the extent that it will have problems as it gets larger. Keep up with the updates



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Old 14th October 2007   #67 (permalink)
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The side of the body that is growing slightly slower isn't much smaller to the point of it being harmful. I'll post more pics soon.



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Old 21st November 2007   #68 (permalink)
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Default updated Pirate pics

Sorry for the poor quality of some of them.
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Old 21st November 2007   #69 (permalink)
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I was wodering how he was doing...is he getting darker in colour ?..i.e he seems more speckled now



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Old 22nd November 2007   #70 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bellabelloo View Post
I was wodering how he was doing...is he getting darker in colour ?..i.e he seems more speckled now
Yes, he is in fact getting darker in some areas. The yellow has become an orangish colour, and the grey patches on it's body have gotten pretty black. The middle picture is from the outside of a tub, so it doesn't do him justice. I'll get more side views of him/her when it's in a glass tank next time.



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Old 13th December 2007   #71 (permalink)
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Here are a couple with better light for you to see the colors...
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Old 13th December 2007   #72 (permalink)
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It's a beauty.. I hope he'll keep that color and won't darken more.
It looks sweet to see that he's albino, wildtype and leucist :)



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Old 14th December 2007   #73 (permalink)
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Its amazing that you can see distinct areas of different pigmentation..its like mum had left over bits and rather than waste them joined them all together to make one unique little axolotl ( well thats what my 5 year old daughter said after I tried to explain why Pirate is so different!) I hope you all enjoyed the show this weekend..if I had magic powers I would be there too.



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Old 21st December 2007   #74 (permalink)
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Exclamation This is so COOOL

Pirate looks awesome and really healthy... thankyou for letting us see him growing.... Good Luck with him for the future....



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Old 31st December 2007   #75 (permalink)
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Wow have just seen Pirate and this thread...what a super neat Axie, the updates have been awesome :)



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Old 31st December 2007   #76 (permalink)
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Closest I've seen to a Harlequin yet. Jake I hope you're breeding from him :).



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Old 31st December 2007   #77 (permalink)
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Closest I've seen to a Harlequin yet. Jake I hope you're breeding from him :).
Believe me, when Pirate is big enough, I'll probably raise every single of his offspring just to see if there's another one.



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Old 12th April 2008   #78 (permalink)
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Default 'Pirate Gary' Update...

Well, it's been a while since the last time I posted about my *special one. It appears that 'he' is really in fact a 'she'! I have her father in my posession and plan do a father/daughter mating in a few more months after she's put on a bit more size and has reached 16-18 months of age. I haven't measured her lately, but she's at least 8 inches long now. I've decided to changer her name to 'Piretta Gareth' due to the sex change



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Old 12th April 2008   #79 (permalink)
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Thanks for the update, but where are the photos? :P



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Old 12th April 2008   #80 (permalink)
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Here are the pics of her. Either a well endowed female or a male that hasn't hit that peak in his life yet, either way I like it.
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Very strange Axolotl color morph...-img_1908.jpg  



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hayee92, Hayley411, HayleyK, Hayleyy, Hays, Hconway4, hdonahue, HeartlessAngel, Heather at HMSG, heather7792, HeatherFeather, HeavenlyCharmed, Hedge, helen38, Hellbrinqer, Hellcat73, HelloKitty, helobed, Herb, hermes, herplvr, Hesher, hexipherd, heyeaps, heytina, highplainsherp, HitmanSougo13, hixxxy, HLFB, HMAxolotl, HMontross, Hoagii, HodgeaPodge, HolisticGoddess, Hollystark, holmeperos, holoublahee, homebrew, honeybeehoward, hoot, hopea2, hornet, Horselover, Hotrod Vampire, hotshotqt29, Hotspot, houdan, Howie, HowToAxolotl, HP12300, huhsleepysteven, humberto, Hynerpeton, Hype, hypno monkey, iamabananatree, IamJocie, iAmOrangutan, IamTheBear, IanC, ianclick, IanF, ian_uk, iAxolotl, ibjustwrite, Ibkikn, Icarez, ice, iChris, ichthyherps, idahofleur1988, idiodyssey, iheartaxie, ii AshmaaN x, IlanaWilkin, ilomilo, IloveAxol, imasu, immehere, Immemorial, imppy25rs, Imy, imzunicorn, indicakush, indoboard7, infection23, infested, Infinite, inkozana, InMemoryOfKoNa, Inmyownzoo, innerdialogue, inryoku, Insomniac, inukawaii, iopt44, iplaythebassoon, Irishsean, isadorala, iscrazynes, iSuzie, Italicus, Itsalltender, itsjustamber, iusuiusui, Ivo Katrafilov, ivoteforpedro, Ivyna J Spyder, i_love_necturus, J Guidry, j3nny, jackiedj420, jackj921, jacksonuk, jacquie09, Jade x, Jadore axolotl, jAfFa CaKe, Jag, JaiElBee, Jake, jake96, James Gordon, jamesh, Jamesthenewt, Jammer, Jamy, Jan, janetkelly2005, Janine, janno, Jasmini, jasper408, jaujemba, Jausi, Jaws, jaxon, jay r n, Jay87, JayRob23, jays, Jazz, jbaconnh, jbherpin, jbmaca, JBullock, JBW, jchimpo91, jclee, Jcreppel, jctkc, Jdeep11, jdlqh8, jduff1109, Jeanne, jef, Jejund, jelkins, jelly, JellyBones, jellybubby88, jels, jen627, Jenko, jenlefevre, Jennewt, jenniepeg, Jennifer, Jennistophales, Jens, Jenste, Jeroen Spobeck, Jerome, Jess, Jessdino, jessi, jessicaanne, JessKB, Jesthing, Jewelz, jgreen, Jhorvath22865, jibanoodleboi, jikaru, Jill, Jim King, JimBarnett, JimD, jingles, jinian, Jishy, jjay88, jjdickinson, jjt1979, JK, JM29, jmknapp21, jmtonkin, Jnmbustos, joanashearman, Joce, jockey, jockmcfrog, JodieBromilow, joeingles123, joejoe826901, joeyasaurusrex, JOEYBALLS, joeypro88, joeysgreen, Johan, Johana209, johas123, John, Jojo86, jolt420, Jon Aaron, Jon7, Jonbradburn, joneum42, Joost, JoParker, jord, Jordamn, Jordi, Joruus, JoshG, Jossie, JP100, jport73, jrider110, jtabber, Jtesta31, jujubee, julia, Julie and Jason, Julie1002, julio, Just Me, JustKenna, jwilkerson3003, Jynx, jyxie, Jzehr125, K1rby, K3teach, k9dr, kaborn, Kadoink, KadynaAvy, KaeKaze, kaikoga, Kaisebon, Kaitlyn, Kakmonstret, Kal El, Kalebepic, kaliko22, kamikazechocobo, Kane, kaoticlonefool, KaptenDiesel, Karatts, Karayna, KarinAxies, karmadingo, karoosah, Kashka, Kaskoda, Kasye, kat25, kate h, katepc, katherynei, katie11122, Katie80, katis, katlyn, KATZ, KaylaContagious, kaylalouise, Kayne, Kaysie, kaze, kazkut, KazzysKritters, kclinton, kCm, kdgarloc, Ke0ni, keiko, keithp, kelsnels92, Ken Worthington, Kendall, Keno, Kent, keq, kernow, kerosseno, kerry, Kerry1968, kettering bloke, keynewt, kezben, khudgins81, kiathepooch, Kib0y, Kibbles, KibosJ, kidaround, Kimantha333, kimax, kimbosaurr, kimbully, Kimfishepet, kimharland, kimko86, kimo, KimYoshiko, king nick, kingy da killa, kinks, kinkyoto, Kiowa, Kipper, KippersMom, kira, kirsty, Kirzzin, kissbazs, Kit, kitty, KittyKatMe, Kiyo, kjacks, kjbillingsley, KJ_29, KKA, kkslok, Kladeaney, klaydogz, kmacfarlane, knifegill, kniggit, knightngal, Knobtailedgecko, Knowlzy, knyptozoologist, kody240, Koikichi, Kokiron, KombatVirus, KookaRocha, Koryos, Kozza, krazeestraw, krex, Kribby, Kristen, kristensundevic, KristenW, KristianKrogh, KrisztianNemeth, kroezen, kryrinn, ks85, ksparks519, kstrach15, KT, ktcwgrl, Ktlagges, ktolentino18, Kuhn33, Kupcake, kuphie, Kurant, kurlytop1976, Kurtlin, Kurtzy, kwally, ky4nn4, kyro411, Kyryah, laalflaach, Lachlan McKillo, laddiej, ladybeetle911, ladydaisymay, ladyleslie2013, laluffy, LamD79, LanaBat, Lanky, Lara11, las, Laserpony, 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Macrauchenia, mactank13, MAD304, Madcatman, MaddogJones, madeve, MadiIBtt, madink, MaDsci, Mafta, Mag, Magali, Maggie13, magickfox, magikfoxzero, Mai, makis, makutafish, malamutekid, Maldark, Mama Mia, mamangenn, mamatoulouse, Mana, manateaparty, mandachan, MandiceP, Mangaka, mangomythman, Manifest, mantighoul, manutaaz, Maple128, Marceline, maree8ree, mareofnight, marga97, margbooth, Margie, Mariaelizarose, Marian, Marimonk, MarioR, Marizna, marjoramalotl, Markgilst, markinco, MarkKing, Markw, marlee, Martian, Martin21114, martin7283, martinpccare, marwood, matchu77, matias, mauricio nagata, Mavericksol, maxelliotjones, MayaShion, Maythe27th, mblanford, MCBnerd, McCray331, mduros, Meadow Clark, MearWolf, meb, Medgar, MEEX, mega, Meggersxoxo, meghanashley, megsrenee, Megz, mekkha, MelancholyMiss, melandallanie, Melanie, melfly, melgado22, MelissaB, melrose1414, melv1n, melvin2002, memojo1979, Memory, mercurydustin, Mere, MereB, Mertyn, mewsie, mexicola, MG72, michael, Michael2266, michaelaf, MichaelJMcLeroy, MichaelWB, Middu, Midgey Smith, Midwestmom, miesamie, mifuneaxie, miguelmannao29, mikeg, MikeM, MikeO, MikeyLikesIt, Miko Hayashi, milhouseaok, Milkpop, Milla, millerj76, Mimiru, mimozine, miniskop, Minja777, Minnie Mouse, Mintee, minxytota, Miss Lelli, missgosh, Missingjustice, MissT, Misterbluesky, MisterMackTen, MistyMeadow3, mitch, mitchell101, Mitzee, miykael81, mizbek69, Mizu, mizzerman, Mjasko, Mkaye91, mmaassoonn, mmbd73, mmuumi, mneavor, Mochiball, modestum, moeortz, Mojo, Mojo911, Mojojomo, Molch, MollyAttack, momar1234, MommaK, mondohead, Moniques78, Monocle, Montdepilate, moominaxie, MoonGazer, moony1988, Morbias, morg, morgrid, Moriarty, morjar, morpheus92i, Morrison, mortava, Mortimer, moss, Mot, mpikis, Mr Brown, Mr Feathergill, Mr Gruff, Mr Poseidon, Mr Quackers, MrBig0, mrdisposal, MRowe, MrsNubcake, mrtanuki, Mschaefer, msgthpst, mshine1217, msmonkeydog, MsRadioRose, mthom211, Muddy, muddydragon, Mudgey, Mudshark, muffywrx, Munchausen, munchbunch, Murphy family, Musicaddict, musilvr4eva, Mxttbxrnes, MyFirstAxie, myke, Mylilpegasister, Myst, myyumbrella, NachoMom, nadine, nailartjess, Naked Cat, NanaLuke, Nancy Haggerty, Nano, Narakun, narny101, Nat, Nat1, NatalieT, naterpie, Nathan050793, NathanF, natimus, natjobe, natsharp14, Nattles88, naturebabe, naturegirl, Naughty T, naymo, NBkilla, Necroyeti, Necturus101, NecturusLindsay, NeelyBryanne, Neff, Neil C, Neke, Nemesea, Neon, Neonetic, NeonGeckoBubble, Neotenic_Jaymes, Nepeta, Neque, NERD603, Nessi88, Nessie, Nessie7, nettie, Neuter, nevohne, NewDreamz, newpowers, Newtility, NexSocius, nextortorres, Nexus616, nic3kx, Nick Ellicott, NickA, nickjwes, nicolelawton, NidiaNz, Niels D, Niffarious, Nightteare, Nijinski, nikkiboo, nikoli1984, Niloticus, Nimby, Nin10doGC, nina89, Nioa, nix, nixx1985, Noaaa, NoahF, NomKitty, nomoremind, nookiecrook, nora, norcaljessica, Norcinu, Norman, Norrington, NotAFish, NovaRose, NPerota, nudibranch, Nukleopatra, NV, nynke, Nyxx, Oakivy, oceanblue, odalisque, Odd, ogc, Ohana, ohaxies, Oldgiffer, Olivia97, olympic, oneatos, onecrazyredhead, onetwentysix, OnyxAxolotl, OpalRaven7, optimist, orangebud, orca, Orchid225, oregon newt, orgoca, Orvilleberta, otolith, Otterwoman, ozarkhellbender, OZIRIS, paigee, Painisme, palatimo, Palex134, pam916, PandaHuggaz, Pandibug, Paniccasey, PanTech, paris, Parlorre, parsonii, PatchworkClocks, patiencepending, patrickg, patterkillar, Pau1, Paul B, paulgreg12, paullism, pawprint08, Pebble, PelicanBlue, penaliah, PennyArthur, pent565, PenumbraHulk, pepper, Perocore, pestey, pete, peter5930, peterj, Petersgirl, phatts45, phee, PherPhace, philbaker76, PhxJosh, pike0, pinkangel729, PinkSkullCity, PinkysMom, Pitus79, pixolite, placebojunkie, Platterpus, pnkflyd669, PNWsawyer, Pofke, Polarize, Polechka, pollywog, pomerinke, poncho11, pondweed, pookiewn, PorcelainGeisha, porkchop48, Poseidon, Possum63, potogold71, Prairie Eco, pravacouture, Prettykitty, Prot, psychoboyjack, pugapoo, punxy, puppetmaster04, PurpleKat, purplemuffin, pustka88, puzzle, pythonmdk, pyxax, qfqw, Queed, Quentari, Quetzacoatl, quite, qwidge, r24111, RACH2910, Rachael Lea, rachel1, Rachel2201, racheljritchie, rachelkaedy, rachemma, rachngo, rae13, Rageliss, ragn4rok, Rainbowz, rainrad2013, Rainy, Rainy222, raizou, Rami, Rammoth,