Anderson's Axolotls! All Females!?

[Matthew B]

Hello everyone!
6 months ago I purchased 4 Andersonii Axolotls. They are finally old/big enough to tell what sex they are. All females . I was really wanting to breed and keep the line true Andersonii. My question is: is there anyone looking for females that would be willing to make a trade for a male? Or does anyone have a Male willing to sell??? Please message me and let me know.
Thank you very much!

[Rachel]

you mean andersons salamanders?

you could try breeding with an axolotl and maybe you'd have an andersons axolotl. Is that even possible?

[Carson]

how does everyone make smiley faces here? I'm looking for a facepalm

[Rachel]

... what did i say?

you click the go advanced button

[nai live]

I have never heard of these guys before, just checked them out and the look superb. I have no idea why anyone would want to cross them with a mexicanum though, we will end up with mutt axys with little or no difference between two species/subspecies. Can they even interbreed?

[Rachel]

theres nothing wrong with mutts, allthough most of the time if its x specis they are infertile anyway... like mules or ligers. I know tiger salamenders and axolotls can breed, can andersons and axolots too?

[Jennewt]

I attempted to raise this issue in a thread in the Ambystoma forum a while back. So far, people's experiences seem to be varied. One person reports a normal 50/50 ratio from a large number of animals, but a lot of other people seem to end up with more females than males.
Are sex ratios in A. andersoni 50/50?

Yes, they can interbreed. I'm generally opposed to "mutts" making their way into the pet trade. Before you know it, nobody really knows what species they have.

[Rodrigo]

Captive axolotls have already being crossed with tiger salamanders and most (all?) bloodlines contain different degrees of genetic introgression from that species. In other words...captive axolotls are not 100% axolotls anymore. Why would anyone want to dilute them even further by crossing them again with a third species? That would make things even worse...
I find it curious that people are so eager to comment on how sad it is that axolotls are nearly extinct in the wild (which is indeed a very sad thing) yet pay absolutely no mind to the genetic integrity of captive populations. This is highly utopian but if things had been done VERY differently with this species, we would have good bloodlines that could even have been used, under the right circumstances, to repopulate wild populations should they finally disappear (it´s tricky, but could have potentially been done). As things are, that´s an impossibility. When wild axolotls are gone, they really will be gone.

[~~Eddie~~]

well said azheal

[Rachel]

arn't most pets cross species to some extent?

[Rodrigo]

Hmm...not really.
Dogs come from Canis lupus, cats come from Felis silvestris, ferrets from Mustela putorius...
Domestic pets are artificially selected, but they still each come from one single ancestral species. There may be exceptions (i don´t know, like llama/camel hybrids, if those count as pets) , but largely, the majority of pets we keep are not hybrids, they are just modified variants. That´s equal to selecting for different axolotl morphs, but does not involve hybridisation.
Even if it did, i don´t see the point. How is it relevant wether other pets are hybrids? I disagree with the idea that since an animal is in captivity, we can do with it whatever we want. I think it´s high time we apply some morals to captive breeding and artificial selection.

[Saint]

Originally Posted by Azhael

Hmm...not really.
Dogs come from Canis lupus, cats come from Felis silvestris, ferrets from Mustela putorius...
Domestic pets are artificially selected, but they still each come from one single ancestral species. There may be exceptions (i don´t know, like llama/camel hybrids, if those count as pets) , but largely, the majority of pets we keep are not hybrids, they are just modified variants. That´s equal to selecting for different axolotl morphs, but does not involve hybridisation.
Even if it did, i don´t see the point. How is it relevant wether other pets are hybrids? I disagree with the idea that since an animal is in captivity, we can do with it whatever we want. I think it´s high time we apply some morals to captive breeding and artificial selection.

Hear Hear!
If me keeping or breeding axolotls can help repopulate the species in the wild I'm more than willing and happy to do my part. I suppose not everyone feels the same way though.

[Rodrigo]

Yeah, the problem is that you can´t. The animals in captivity are not suitable for reintroduction. I suposse there might be some bloodlines somewhere, probably in a research facility, that could be made suitable, but no captive axolotl in the hobby is.
Truth be told, even if we were making an effort to maintain axolotls coherent with wild populations (instead of promoting color morphs and inbreeding like mad), they most likely wouldn´t be suitable for reintroductions either. However, it would at least mean that there´d be a reserve in captivity of animals which once quarantined and adequately selected, could have potentially been used for that purpose in the direst of situations.
As things are, though, captive axolotld are completely useless. What we have in captivity is not coherent with wild populations, it would be like introducing alsatian dogs into a wolf population, close, but just not the same.

[Matthew B]

Here is a Pic of my Anderson's.
I purchased them as Anderson's Axolotls and if you look online, they retail for around $150.00-$200.00
I did not know that this was not a "true" breed of Axie.

[Matthew B]

Carson
(carsona246)
Insulting someone helps no one out. Thank you.

http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatre...-us-hobbyists/

Rare Aquatic Salamanders of Mexico’s Highlands

One of the world’s rarest amphibians is being bred by dedicated hobbyists and is now available in the US pet trade. Anderson’s salamander, Ambystoma andersoni, which was only formally described in 1984, is limited in range to a single high altitude (6,000+ feet above sea level) lake and stream in south-central Mexico (Laguna de Zacupa, Michoacan, Mexico). The IUCN lists it as “Critically Endangered”.

Anderson’s salamander is part of a complex of similar aquatic, neotenic salamanders which includes the Mexican axolotl (A. mexicanum). Neotenic species retain larval characteristics such as external gills and an aquatic lifestyle upon maturity.

A dozen or more species of these unique, poorly-studied amphibians inhabit mountain lakes in Mexico. Most are found only in a single lake or, in the case of the axolotl, may exist only in canals and other habitat remnants. Some, including the Dumeril’s salamander (A. dumrelii), seem to have adapted to waters that are somewhat saline in nature.

[Carson]

Originally Posted by matthewbennett

Carson
(carsona246)
Insulting someone helps no one out. Thank you.

I was just having a little fun, no disrespect intended

[nai live]

Over a number of generations we have changed both the axolotls look and behaviour, we have inbred for different colours ,they no longer need to hunt so many have lost the abilit(my axolotls have had 15 guppies in their tank for two months now theres twenty because theve bred and the axolotls have failed to catch any )some pretty crappy specimens are being bred and sold on , animals that in the wild would die, thought due to human kindness and/or greed are not culled so survive to pass on their substandard genes. However all is not lost , unlike dogs which have been bred from the wolf for thousands of years, axolotls have only been captive for a 150 years or so, they are not that far removed from their wild ancestors. Im sure that a suitable pond filled with a variety of captive axolotls,which left to fend for themselves would by darwinian selection revert to a viable wild axolotl over a number of generations. All is not lost and though the fate of axolotls in their native habitat looks bleak, at some point humanity will pull its collective finger out, respect the environment and our pets ancestors may eventually have a future in the wild.

[benh]

Originally Posted by xxianxx

All is not lost and though the fate of axolotls in their native habitat looks bleak, at some point humanity will pull its collective finger out, respect the environment and our pets ancestors may eventually have a future in their native habitat.

Hope your right Ian!!

[Rodrigo]

Oh, i have no doubt you could get a functional wild population of axolotls from captive stock, but the problem is, they wouldn´t really be axolotls, not 100%. They would carry genetic introgressions from A.tigrinum, and a variety of alleles which do not happen in nature, as well as containing a very poor genetic pool that would make them drift away inexorably. It may seem irrelevant to some people, but to me it really isn´t....they wouldn´t be the original, they´d be a modified version which would not be the same animal. That´s why i say that when the true wild axolotls are gone, they´ll be lost forever, we will be stuck with a poor version...

[nai live]

Originally Posted by Azhael

Oh, i have no doubt you could get a functional wild population of axolotls from captive stock, but the problem is, they wouldn´t really be axolotls, not 100%. They would carry genetic introgressions from A.tigrinum, and a variety of alleles which do not happen in nature, as well as containing a very poor genetic pool that would make them drift away inexorably. It may seem irrelevant to some people, but to me it really isn´t....they wouldn´t be the original, they´d be a modified version which would not be the same animal. That´s why i say that when the true wild axolotls are gone, they´ll be lost forever, we will be stuck with a poor version...

Tiger salamanders are in north east mexico and the axolotls live in central mexico, so potentially at some point they may have naturally come into contact with each other and bred. Forgive my ignorance on this subject but have any studies being done on wild axolotls to see if they have any tiger genes in them? For if tiger genes occur in the wild axolotl population a bit of gene mixing has already happened.