The longest running Amphibian Community on the Internet.

Tags Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Caudata.org Store


Help

This is a discussion on Help within the Sick Axolotl? forums, part of the Axolotls (Ambystoma mexicanum) category; The have not been suggested as a treatment for impaction, merely that it MAY help them pass it easier. At ...

Sick Axolotl? Axolotl looking down in the gills? The doctors are in.

Like Tree6Likes


Reply

 

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 28th November 2013   #21 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
layna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 26
Posts: 1,268
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: layna has given good advice and informationlayna has given good advice and informationlayna has given good advice and information
Default Re: Help

The have not been suggested as a treatment for impaction, merely that it MAY help them pass it easier. At least thats what i suggest, but i dont speak for others.



__________________
Im animal mad, if your not, too bad

If you like my advice, please add to my reputation so others know im helpful
layna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2013   #22 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
xxianxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 2,477
Gallery Images: 4
Comments: 7
Rep: xxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.org
Default Re: Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by layna View Post
The have not been suggested as a treatment for impaction, merely that it MAY help them pass it easier. At least thats what i suggest, but i dont speak for others.
I am not singling you out Layana, waxworms are suggested in a number of threads for treating impaction/gravel in the gut of axolotls.



__________________
Axolotls available, wild type, copper, golden albino. P.waltl, Golden mantella, E.tricolor, T.verrucosus, I.a.alpestris, B.variagata, A.andersoni available now. Pm for details.
xxianxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2013   #23 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
layna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 26
Posts: 1,268
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: layna has given good advice and informationlayna has given good advice and informationlayna has given good advice and information
Default Re: Help

It may be helpful to have a "my axie has this, what is the treatment" sticky in the sick axie forum so people can just look at that instead of asking the same questions
i.e
My axie has white stuff on his gills, what shall i do?...Give your axie a salt bath, read the tutorial on how to do it
My axies bum is floating?...Constipation, it will pass or you can put them in the fridge to help, read the tutorial

For the most common problems, idk just an idea. It will mean we dont get repeat posts and people have a clear guide on what to do, without people suggesting their own things.



__________________
Im animal mad, if your not, too bad

If you like my advice, please add to my reputation so others know im helpful
layna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2013   #24 (permalink)
Member
 
Amy82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 35
Posts: 75
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 2
Rep: Amy82 has started on the right path
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxianxx View Post
Your missing the point. Waxworms HAVE been touted as a proven treatment for ingested gravel and impaction. It was suggested as a possible treatment and has now assumed the status as a recognized treatment without a shred of evidence that it works. Once information is repeated enough times without being challenged it becomes fact. As for "better" treatments, ingested gravel requires no treatment as it can work its way out over a period of time, if he axolotl becomes impacted a proven treatment is fridging. By pushing the waxworm miracle cure some people may choose not to fridge their pet and rely on waxworms, which may or may not work . As for "stubbornness", I think to continually support a course of action with no proven benefit at the possible expense of somebody's pet is both stubborn and irresponsible. People come to this forum for help, they believe what they read.
Scientifically speaking, simply repeating something DOES NOT make it fact. Consistently reproducible outcomes and physical evidence backed by a strong hypothesis does.

In the case of a novice and I would think in the instance of trying to do what's best for the animal, any and all beneficial methods should be utilized, starting with the safest and most benign.



__________________
Education is the cure for ignorance, not admonishment.
Amy82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2013   #25 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
xxianxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 2,477
Gallery Images: 4
Comments: 7
Rep: xxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.org
Default Re: Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy82 View Post
Scientifically speaking, simply repeating something DOES NOT make it fact. Consistently reproducible outcomes and physical evidence backed by a strong hypothesis does.

In the case of a novice and I would think in the instance of trying to do what's best for the animal, any and all beneficial methods should be utilized, starting with the safest and most benign.
BHOD ........
If something is constantly reported as "fact" without being challenged it becomes an accepted "fact", wether it is true or not. People new to the forum will read this information, assume it is correct and pass this on, regurgitating this unproven information to the next load of noobs who wander in to try and get some advice. This is what is happening with waxworms as a treatment for gravel. There is no actual proof that it works, "Consistently reproducible outcomes" are lacking. If you guys wish to tout an untested treatment for gravel carry on but make sure you inform people that there is no actual proof it has any beneficial effect and let them make their own mind up wether it is worth the effort to try it. Gravel in the gut requires no treatment unless it becomes impacted, in which case fridging is the proven treatment.



__________________
Axolotls available, wild type, copper, golden albino. P.waltl, Golden mantella, E.tricolor, T.verrucosus, I.a.alpestris, B.variagata, A.andersoni available now. Pm for details.
xxianxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2013   #26 (permalink)
Member
 
Amy82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 35
Posts: 75
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 2
Rep: Amy82 has started on the right path
Default Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxianxx View Post
BHOD ........
If something is constantly reported as "fact" without being challenged it becomes an accepted "fact", wether it is true or not. People new to the forum will read this information, assume it is correct and pass this on, regurgitating this unproven information to the next load of noobs who wander in to try and get some advice. This is what is happening with waxworms as a treatment for gravel. There is no actual proof that it works, "Consistently reproducible outcomes" are lacking. If you guys wish to tout an untested treatment for gravel carry on but make sure you inform people that there is no actual proof it has any beneficial effect and let them make their own mind up wether it is worth the effort to try it. Gravel in the gut requires no treatment unless it becomes impacted, in which case fridging is the proven treatment.
If you've read my posts you will see that nowhere have I "touted" this as a treatment. I've merely provided information regarding digestion and absorption as well as what actually makes something a scientific fact as opposed to a hypothesis.

I still don't understand why if it's something that is only beneficial to the animal you're so vehemently opposed to it. I understand what your saying as "accepted fact" now. I think simply reminding people there is no proof behind the supplementation of wax worms in the diet and that it's a harmless rumored suggestion for passing gravel is a good idea.

I still think that this would make a great thesis.



__________________
Education is the cure for ignorance, not admonishment.
Amy82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2013   #27 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
xxianxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 2,477
Gallery Images: 4
Comments: 7
Rep: xxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.org
Default Re: Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy82 View Post
If you've read my posts you will see that nowhere have I "touted" this as a treatment. I've merely provided information regarding digestion and absorption as well as what actually makes something a scientific fact as opposed to a hypothesis.

I wasnt specifically reffering to you as "touting" this treatment. A hypothesis without testing is a theorey and not proven fact, which why it is wrong to not inform people of this when advising waxworms as a treatment.



__________________
Axolotls available, wild type, copper, golden albino. P.waltl, Golden mantella, E.tricolor, T.verrucosus, I.a.alpestris, B.variagata, A.andersoni available now. Pm for details.
xxianxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2013   #28 (permalink)
Member
 
Amy82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 35
Posts: 75
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 2
Rep: Amy82 has started on the right path
Default Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxianxx View Post
BHOD ........
Just out of sheer curiosity, what does this mean?



__________________
Education is the cure for ignorance, not admonishment.
Amy82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2013   #29 (permalink)
Prolific Member
 
xxianxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 2,477
Gallery Images: 4
Comments: 7
Rep: xxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.org
Default Re: Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy82 View Post
Just out of sheer curiosity, what does this mean?
Bang Head On Desk........ its politer than saying FFS



__________________
Axolotls available, wild type, copper, golden albino. P.waltl, Golden mantella, E.tricolor, T.verrucosus, I.a.alpestris, B.variagata, A.andersoni available now. Pm for details.
xxianxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gravel constipated, help and advice needed, sick, swollen

LinkBack
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:28.