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PVC

This is a discussion on PVC within the Axolotl tank set-ups, filters, substrate forums, part of the Axolotls (Ambystoma mexicanum) category; Maybe I should have posted this sooner, but it totally slipped my mind: When I was setting up my aquarium ...

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Old 10th March 2013   #1 (permalink)
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Maybe I should have posted this sooner, but it totally slipped my mind:

When I was setting up my aquarium a few months ago, I was thinking of putting some PVC in there as hides. I was at a hardware store, and I happened to run into someone I know who is getting his doctorate in environmental sciences. He asked me why I was there, and I told him I was looking for PVC (and about my axolotl)....

His response surprised me, as he was very adamant that I should not put PVC in my aquarium. He continued by saying that research is currently being conducted in relation to the carcinogenic properties of PVC. While similar research has been out for a while, he indicated that current research is showing stronger correlations between PVC and cancer.

Just thought I would share.

Sharon



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Old 10th March 2013   #2 (permalink)
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But Charmanders PVC tee is his favorite hideee ):



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Old 10th March 2013   #3 (permalink)
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Oooof! I have no idea what the actual risks are. :/



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Old 11th March 2013   #4 (permalink)
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I know alot of the members here have PVC hides in the tank, I'd like to hear from the ones who've had them in the tank long term, if their axxies were fine living in them



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Old 11th March 2013   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: PVC

Long time PVC user. I've never had any issues.

but keep in mind not all PVC is made the same.
PVC not meant to be used for water for human consumption is not always safe for submerging in your axie tank.

You can also seal your PVC with aquarium silicone, even adding a coating of sand to give your cave a more natural look.



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Old 14th March 2013   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ZombieAxolotl View Post
Long time PVC user. I've never had any issues.

but keep in mind not all PVC is made the same.
PVC not meant to be used for water for human consumption is not always safe for submerging in your axie tank.

You can also seal your PVC with aquarium silicone, even adding a coating of sand to give your cave a more natural look.
The PVC that the guy was warning me about was for human consumption (not the pipes, but you know what I mean!).....



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Old 14th March 2013   #7 (permalink)
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Honestly I just think the guy was refering to when PVC is burned.

There are lots of things that are harmful that can be by products of PVC production.
Lots of Health nuts and Green Peace go after these things.

But I haven't seen a viable study on the USE of human consumption grade PVC pipe and causing the problems you are listing.

If someone has an actual study and not conspiracy talk.. i'd love to see it. As it would keep me in the know.



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Old 14th March 2013   #8 (permalink)
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Hey Zombie... You mentioned that you could seal and put a layer of sand around your PVC. I would love to hear more about that... I also use PVC but it does kinda look weird, so of I could make it more natural looking I'm all into that!

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2



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Old 14th March 2013   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: PVC

Well first there is theft involved Hahaha
I relieve my drs office of several tounge depresses, I tried popsicle sticks, but they are to thin. I also used a thin cheap plastic putty knife that wasn't to bad.

Use either of those to coat the PVC in aquarium silicone. Then press in sand, or even do a pattern in larger stones.
Its easiest to obviously do one side, then the other.

I will get some pics next time I make some.



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Old 14th March 2013   #10 (permalink)
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So I did a little more research, and I don't think I'm just being paranoid about this. I have attached one article, but I have quite a few more. Here is a blurb from the article that discusses toxicity to Daphnia when PVC leaches into the water. I would guess that the toxins would be even more toxic to axolotls, as their skin would absorb the chemicals that are being leached. Please let me know what you think about this or if I'm reading it incorrectly.

3.3.1 PVC products

PVC is made from vinyl chloride and is the plastic type that requires, by far, the most additives, accounting for 73% of the world production of additives by volume (Murphy 2001). Heat stabilizers are required to prevent the polymer from degrading during processing (Jennings and Starnes 2005). In plasticized PVC, plasticizers in amounts up to 60 percentages by weight can be used, but most commonly, 3540 wt% is used (Navarro et al. 2010). The plasticizers are not bound chemically to the polymer and are capable of migrating from the plastic material (Patrick 2005).

According to the manufacturer, the PVC laboratory gloves were plasticized with diisononyl phthalate (DINP) and calcium/zinc stabilizers were used as heat stabilizers (personal communication). The results from the metal analysis of the reproduced leachate from the gloves are shown in Table 2. Only the elements that were higher in the leachate than in the control are presented in the table. Those substances that increased the most compared with the control were Ca, Zn, S, Sn, and Na. It is likely that the Ca and Zn came from the heat stabilizers. Of the metals released, especially Zn could explain part of the toxicity seen. Zinc is very toxic to aquatic organisms. The lowest EC50 forD.magna reported for zinc is 70μg/L, according to the OECD (2005) SIDS Initial Assessment Profile, and the highest test concentration (250 g glove/L) contained 1,600480μg Zn/L (Table 2). In the EC50 concentration, the leachate was diluted (a factor 0.016), so the resulting Zn concentration does not alone explain the toxicity in the EC50 concentration but may do so in the higher concentrations.



Attached Files
File Type: pdf PVC leaching.pdf (241.1 KB, 555 views)



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Old 14th March 2013   #11 (permalink)
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From the same article:

Even during short-term (2472 h) leaching in water plastic products can leach toxic substances that cause acute toxicity. All plasticized PVC (5/5) and epoxy (5/5) products leached chemicals that were acutely toxic to D. magna.



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Old 14th March 2013   #12 (permalink)
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If i read that correctly on my tiny phone...

That's talking about a PVC/vinyl glove.
Not a human consumption PVC pipe.



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Old 14th March 2013   #13 (permalink)
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I believe thin-walled and flexible plastics contain a lot more plasticizer than rigid plastic does.



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Old 14th March 2013   #14 (permalink)
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They used a laboratory glove, a window frame, a boat fender, a watering can, arm floaties,.

No human consumption grade products.

Granted the watering can is suspicious.



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Old 14th March 2013   #15 (permalink)
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I believe thin-walled and flexible plastics contain a lot more plasticizer than rigid plastic does.
They also used rigid PVC.



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Old 14th March 2013   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieaxolotl View Post
if i read that correctly on my tiny phone...

That's talking about a pvc/vinyl glove.
Not a human consumption pvc pipe.
PVC-imageuploadedbytapatalk1363304585.292659.jpg



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Old 14th March 2013   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer View Post
Again, as listed in the study....
They used a laboratory glove, a window frame, arm floaties. Wet room wall carpet, rain poncho. Were the PVC products (not fender and can)

No human consumption grade products.


Same as i said earlier. Not all PVC is made the same.
which is why im sure to only buy human consumption grade pvc



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