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Leopard Frogs: New Species Found, Captive Care, Leopard Frog Diversity

This is a discussion on Leopard Frogs: New Species Found, Captive Care, Leopard Frog Diversity within the Ranidae: True Frogs forums, part of the Anura: Frogs & Toads category; Hi All, As a native of NYC, Iím no stranger to the natural wonders to be found there. In my ...

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Old 31st March 2012   #1 (permalink)
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Default Leopard Frogs: New Species Found, Captive Care, Leopard Frog Diversity

Hi All,
As a native of NYC, Iím no stranger to the natural wonders to be found there. In my time, Iíve filled quite a few notebooks with pleasant surprisesÖcoyotes in Manhattan, Pine Voles in the Bronx, Red Salamanders on Staten Island, 1,000+ insect species, 13 herps, 250+ birds, red and gray fox on the grounds of the Bronx Zoo, and many more. New species have been discovered as well, but most have been small and secretive, such as the undescribed centipede recently found living in Central Park. But the existence of a sizable, gaudy frog that calls loudly each spring, living undetected within city limits, took the herpetological community very much by surprise. Read article here: Leopard Frog Shocker - a New Species is Discovered in New York City | That Reptile Blog
Comments and questions appreciated.

Thanks, Frank

http://twitter.com/#!/findiviglio
Frank Indiviglio | Facebook
Bio: That Pet Place welcomes Zoologist/Herpetologist Frank Indiviglio to That Reptile Blog | That Reptile Blog



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Old 1st April 2012   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Leopard Frogs: New Species Found, Captive Care, Leopard Frog Diversity

Interesting. My first thought was "April 1st", but I see that the source is legitimate and dated February 2. Based on the phylogeny provided, I would call this a new pickerel frog, and would consequently be intrigued as to its toxicity.

FYI - southern leopards are Lithobates sphenocephalus, not L.pipiens. Slip, I imagine :)

It's also interesting to point out that L.chiricahuensis has been split, with northern populations being the core populations of the presumed-extinct L.fisheri. The jury seems to still be out on the validity of L.subaquavocalis, which is currently considered to be part of true L.chiricahuensis. There appear to be several probable unnamed leopards in the canyons of the desert southwest.

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and i was wondering if you could point me to some parks that are home to sallys or notos! [i live near alley pond park]
It is against good sense and forum policy to post that kind of information for all to see in public.



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Old 1st April 2012   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Leopard Frogs: New Species Found, Captive Care, Leopard Frog Diversity

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Originally Posted by FrogEyes View Post
Interesting. My first thought was "April 1st", but I see that the source is legitimate and dated February 2. Based on the phylogeny provided, I would call this a new pickerel frog, and would consequently be intrigued as to its toxicity.

FYI - southern leopards are Lithobates sphenocephalus, not L.pipiens. Slip, I imagine :)

It's also interesting to point out that L.chiricahuensis has been split, with northern populations being the core populations of the presumed-extinct L.fisheri. The jury seems to still be out on the validity of L.subaquavocalis, which is currently considered to be part of true L.chiricahuensis. There appear to be several probable unnamed leopards in the canyons of the desert southwest.


It is against good sense and forum policy to post that kind of information for all to see in public.
Hello,

Thanks...Many opinions on the taxonomy of that group; I generally follow that used by the Dept of Herpetology at the American Museum of Natural History.

Is there a forum policy against providing info as asked re salamanders?....at the site I mentioned, Alley Pond, species lists are available, signs posted by breeding ponds, etc...online as well, at least in past. Let's not get into the good sense aspect, if you don't mind, thx, Frank



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Old 1st April 2012   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Leopard Frogs: New Species Found, Captive Care, Leopard Frog Diversity

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Is there a forum policy against providing info as asked re salamanders?....
No, you're right. I think the question was general enough to be within sense and rules and I misread it slightly.
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Thanks...Many opinions on the taxonomy of that group; I generally follow that used by the Dept of Herpetology at the American Museum of Natural History
I'm not sure what you mean here. With regard to the name of the southern leopard frog, the name is fairly undisputed, but I suspect you're refering more to the status of western species...

If you are referencing Frost, keep in mind that while it is a very useful resource, it is unpublished and carries no taxonomic weight as a consequence [ie, if he makes changes in taxonomy, those changes don't formally exist]. I don't think that affects much here, although it does mean that most recent papers won't be considered.

Frost notes a number of things regarding this group, including the proposition that Mogollon frogs are L.fisheri [having read the paper, I'd say the evidence is very solid]. He also notes that L.subaquavocalis is more closely related to Mogollon animals than to other specimens included in L.chiricahuensis. The implication there is that L.subaquavocalis may be valid if type specimens of L.chiricahuensis are the same species as those compared. That's a bit beyond the goals and readership of your article however. Other recent papers have shown that L.yavapaiensis also consists of at least two species [even though their combined existence is much reduced]. Again, beyond your article but interesting and relevant nonetheless.

Scouring through Frost, I did discover some other relevant tidbits. First, the type locality of L.pipiens itself is very near this NY population, which opens the possibility that this new species is the "true" L.pipiens and all other specimens need a new name. Second, L.palustris reportedly has considerable variation and may consist of more than one species or subspecies. Since this new form is closest to L.palustris, it must be considered that it might be already named as a subspecies of L.palustris, or may be more widespread and perhaps variable in appearance. I look forward to downloading this paper at my earliest convenience.



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Old 1st April 2012   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Leopard Frogs: New Species Found, Captive Care, Leopard Frog Diversity

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Originally Posted by findi View Post
........Is there a forum policy against providing info as asked re salamanders?....at the site I mentioned, Alley Pond, species lists are available, signs posted by breeding ponds, etc...online as well, at least in past. Let's not get into the good sense aspect, if you don't mind, thx, Frank
Frank - there is a forum policy on providing locality information. Here it is and the rationale behind it: Important: Locality Information Policy

Thanks in advance for future posts adhering to policy.



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Old 1st April 2012   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Leopard Frogs: New Species Found, Captive Care, Leopard Frog Diversity

I'll correct southern leopard frog reference if in error; I've not looked back at the article yet, Latin is as you say. I'm aware of Frost's work in this area and, being based in NYC, am in touch with he and his staff, thanks. I was referring to his work in general, which is followed by many herpetologists.



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Old 1st April 2012   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Leopard Frogs: New Species Found, Captive Care, Leopard Frog Diversity

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Frank - there is a forum policy on providing locality information. Here it is and the rationale behind it: Important: Locality Information Policy

Thanks in advance for future posts adhering to policy.
Thanks, Jan..will do...as note says, with satellite maps and all the "C. Kauffeld effect" easier to implement today! (of course I always did long to speak to him about his field ex. as a youngster, hung around the St Island Zoo when he was there, but never worked up the courage)... I had no qualms here as park is in NYC, closed at night, heavily used/patrolled in day, species lists widely available, ponds labelled etc. Similar references sometimes appear in my articles where appropriate; I'll keep in miind before posting links to those articles here, best, Frank



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Old 2nd April 2012   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Leopard Frogs: New Species Found, Captive Care, Leopard Frog Diversity

Thanks Frank and I do enjoy your posts.



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