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Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

This is a discussion on Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures) within the Bombinatoridae: Fire-bellied toads forums, part of the Anura: Frogs & Toads category; Ok, so I finally have pictures of all ten! Iíll name and number them so that you can post and ...

Bombinatoridae: Fire-bellied toads Discuss these lively little toads here.

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Old 6th July 2008   #1 (permalink)
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Default Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

Ok, so I finally have pictures of all ten! Iíll name and number them so that you can post and tell me who you think is which gender! A few males are confirmed because theyíve tried amplexus, but if you have any comments about them, please do speak up!

Incidentally, there are two twenty gallon tanks with five frogs each:

Tank 1:

Ganon, Austin, Daffodil, Miata, Amy

Tank 2:

Mojo, Smee, Tarzan, Pirate, Leela

If you have a suggestion for rearrangement, please let me know as well.

(1st Tank)

1: Ganon

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2: Daffodil

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3: Austin

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4: Miata

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5: Amy

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(Second Tank)

6: Mojo

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7: Smee

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8: Pirate

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9: Tarzan

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10: Leela

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Austin, Ganon, Mojo, and Tarzan are confirmed males--or females who have tried amplexus. Either Smee or Pirate is a male--I had a hard time telling them apart for a while, but one of them tried amplexus with someone else.

Please let me know who you think is what gender! I've named them based on my best guesses!

Thanks!
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Old 9th July 2008   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

Seems to me that Smee, Pirate, and Tarzan are females, everyone else is a Male. I could be wrong though, I use the "middle-toe length" method where Males usually have a "longer" middle toe on their back feet whereas the female's webbing goes up the middle toe higher making it look like they have smaller toes.
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Old 9th July 2008   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

Really? I had heard that it was the opposite way--females had the "longer toe" and males have the higher webbing. On another forum, someone posted a picture citing the male as the toad with more webbing.
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Old 9th July 2008   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

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Originally Posted by Frognewt View Post
Really? I had heard that it was the opposite way--females had the "longer toe" and males have the higher webbing. On another forum, someone posted a picture citing the male as the toad with more webbing.
That was my understanding also.
I am terrible at sexing from photos, but I'll give this a go(personaly I find overall shape, skin texture and amplex/calling the best indicators of sex);
Males: 8 and 9 definatley, 3 possibly.
Females: 2, 4, 5 and 6. 1, 7 and 10 look likely female to me.

The colouration on Mojo is brilliant, dont think I've ever seen one so brightly coloured all over. I'm fairly sure its a younger female, difficult to tell from the photo but she looks to have quite a plump belly(comparitively speaking, looks skinnier than the others), seems to have very smooth skin and thats a really long back toe. Or it could be a younger male with clown feet.

Great pics, do you have any of their tanks? I keep almost accidently buying some whenever I pass the petshop, wish I had the space
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Old 9th July 2008   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

I also agree that mojo is beautiful.
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Old 9th July 2008   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

Lasher and Frognewt are correct. I remember it as "girls want diamond rings from their men so they stick their 'ring' finger out".
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Old 9th July 2008   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

Mojo thanks you! I'm sure he/she would appreciate someone's advice concerning his size, though; he's a voracious eater, but you may notice that he's not as plump as the other toads. Any thoughts?
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Old 9th July 2008   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

Also, I'll get some pictures of their enclosures up tonight!
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Old 9th July 2008   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

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Originally Posted by Frognewt View Post
Mojo thanks you! I'm sure he/she would appreciate someone's advice concerning his size, though; he's a voracious eater, but you may notice that he's not as plump as the other toads. Any thoughts?
What do you feed them? With five in a tank I imagine its difficult to make sure there all getting the same amount of food, perhaps feed him/her seperatley? Maybe try wax worms to fatten him/her up a bit.
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Old 10th July 2008   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

I feed them a combination of crickets and earthworms (always chopped up) and they're all good eaters. Tonight I separated Mojo and fed him individually, and he ate everything I gave him. I think he'll be fine; he's just a bit smaller than the others.

Here are some pictures of the enclosures!

Left Tank (20 Gallon Long):

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Right Tank (Also 20 Gallon Long):

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Enjoy!
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Old 10th July 2008   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

There nice tanks, simple but effective.
What are they planted with? When I used to keep these I had trouble finding plants that were robust enough to survive being frogged all over, but yours seem to be doing well.
Are they filtered?
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Old 10th July 2008   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

Don't worry about Mojo. I have 2 bright green ones out of a total of 10. From my experience with them, they do take care of each other in their own way. For example, my one eyed toad who had trouble catching food was fed by another toad catching the cricket, injuring it, and putting it in front of Patches. The prodigal FBT who was lost and recovered 4 months later was allowed to eat first until he fattened up.
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Old 10th July 2008   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

Wow! It sounds like you have superhero FBT's; mine are still irked with one another because of the males constantly trying to amplex everyone else.

I'm not sure what the land-based (semi-aquatic) plants are called, but I bought them from the tropical plant mini-kiosk thing at Petco. The truth is, I just aim for plants that are too tall for the frogs to hop on, so that while they provide cover, they remain standing. They HAVE destroyed a few batches of elephant ears, though, so I wouldn't recommend those. I do recommend the two plants you see on the left side of the right tank--those seem almost indestructible. Also, I think fake plants accomplish just as much as live plants since the toads won't be laying eggs on them (unless you're concerned about the gas exchange).

In the water, I just use a ton of floating anacharis, because it's really hardy stuff (usually). I have a couple of Java Ferns, a little Moneywort, and a couple of patches of aquatic grass-like plants in there, too, just in case they're picky when it's egg-laying time.

The tanks are both filtered with Fluvals (a Fluval 1 in the right tank and a Fluval 2 in the left). At first, I tried burying them in the gravel so that they wouldn't disturb the frogs, but I forgot in the left tank after changing it and now they're in love with the thing. It's their favorite place to sit, when the water is low enough!
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Old 11th July 2008   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

Amphibians taking care of eachother?? Come on, get real!

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Old 11th July 2008   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

That's what my husband thought also but he became a believer when I called him over. It was very weird to witness but they are considerate of each other. I bet if you spend enough time with them, you'll see some aspects of a community in your tank also. All of my phone conversations are in front of them (so I can watch them) and their dinner is watched by both my children and myself so we can see who is eating (especially if someone didn't eat the last time).

Prodigals return was interesting because no one was croaking before but once I put him in, a toad hopped over and all the males started croaking. There was no amplexus so I know it wasn't because they were horny.
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Old 11th July 2008   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

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Amphibians taking care of eachother?? Come on, get real!

Han.
You might be suprised!
Particularly with more chacterful and personable species like orientalis you can observe some very interesting behaviour which could definatley be considered 'social'. The 'hierarchy' when feeding in particular can be observed in many species, as can other group behaviours.

Personably I have observed the breakdown of the usual pecking order if a tank mate is sick or injured. Admitedly I've never seen them feeding each other, but one of my old darts was allowed to get first pickings after it lost a hand.

Every time I check this thread scrolling down all those pics makes me want some even more >_<
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Old 11th July 2008   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

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Originally Posted by keechoo View Post
Don't worry about Mojo. I have 2 bright green ones out of a total of 10. From my experience with them, they do take care of each other in their own way. For example, my one eyed toad who had trouble catching food was fed by another toad catching the cricket, injuring it, and putting it in front of Patches. The prodigal FBT who was lost and recovered 4 months later was allowed to eat first until he fattened up.
With all due respect, I find this nearly impossible to believe. Many times pet keepers (myself included) tend to be somewhat anthropomorphic when dealing with their animals. Often times it is very easy to observe random behaviors and attach meaning to them when there really is none.
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Old 11th July 2008   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

YOU SHOULD DO IT!!!! These guys are so much fun, and they have such personalities...maybe moreso than any other type of frog or toad I've kept before. Plus, relatively speaking, they're cheaper to keep! I say do it! =)
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Old 12th July 2008   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me determine the gender of these toads! (Pictures)

I understand and I thought it was a freak thing the first time I saw it happen. But, how do I describe all the times afterwards that we have witnessed it? The healthy toad didn't like the taste of the cricket and just happened to throw it to the same toad every night? Nowadays, Patches jumps on top of the cricket rock waiting for a helpless cricket to climb up and meet its doom.

I don't know. Maybe I just believe that all critters are smarter than we give them credit for. Each to his/her own belief.

Point is: Let Mojo take care of himself in the tank. I guarantee he will not waste away to nothing as long as you continue to feed.
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