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ADF foot rotting off?

This is a discussion on ADF foot rotting off? within the Pipidae: African Clawed Toads, Surinam Toads & Aquatic Frogs forums, part of the Anura: Frogs & Toads category; So I noticed a few weeks ago one of my adfs looked like he had a whiteish patch on his ...

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Old 15th March 2015   #1 (permalink)
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Default ADF foot rotting off?

So I noticed a few weeks ago one of my adfs looked like he had a whiteish patch on his foot, I thought it was a like stuck shed skin and left him alone for a couple days, then tried to help him by getting some tweezers and trying to pull the shed skin off. A tiny bit came off but I left him alone not wanting to bother him anymore. I've been keeping an eye on him but it looks like whatever is wrong is definitely a lot worse now. I can't really tell exactly what's wrong though, it looks like his foot is intact, all his toes and stuff but he hasn't been using it really since before I even intervened and tried to help. I have a couple pictures from a little over a week ago and one from just now in a tub floating in the tank It's a little hard to see but the white does look to be spreading up his foot a little.
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Old 15th March 2015   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

I'd say cut it off with some sharp scissors (sounds cruel, but it's for the best) and give it a salt bath and add some almond leaves to the tank. Someone will know better than me though, so I'd wait for a second opinion before doing anything.



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Old 16th March 2015   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

How long have you had the frogs? My immediate and biggest concern is Chytrid. I know issues with shedding are a symptom, and if you've only had the frogs a couple months, this would be my biggest worry. There is a ton of info on Chytrid and a successful treatment protocol here. Read it all, the treatment protocol is near the end. I would keep the affected frog isolated, and treat all as though they have it, just in case. Might not even be what it is, but better to err on the side of caution.



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Old 16th March 2015   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

Ah no I really really really am not wanting to do that! will it grow back?? Poor guy I don't even know if it is fungus...I don't know if it's rotting! it still looks like it has all the toes and everything when I examined him like out of the water...



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Old 16th March 2015   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

Sorry I guess I replied the same time you did rachel but yes I got them around January I think...maybe a little earlier.. I don't really know if it is an issue with shedding...right around the same time as I noticed the foot I also noticed a complete shed skin hanging on a fake plant (it was really weird and ghostly I took a picture if someone thinks I might be mistaken... I didn't even know they shed until a month after I got them...)



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Old 16th March 2015   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

That link I shared also has a salt solution for amphibian support, that will decrease stress on his body and help boost his immune system. I would hesitate to amputate the foot, that seems like it would just stress him more. I know there is also an effective Chytrid treatment using Lamasil baths, but you would have to look it up. The upside is you can get Lamasil over the counter pretty easily. Also, what are the water parameters? Ammonia, etc, temp, pH? If the water quality isn't awesome, that could cause problems as well. I would strongly suggest treating everyone for Chytrid if there's even a chance that's what it is, as it usually causes close to 100% mortality if left untreated.



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Old 16th March 2015   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

I looked through the link pretty thoroughly... I'm just having a hard time believing it could be something so bad! I'll definitely get on the salt solution seems like no matter what it is, that would help. His tank is sitting at 78 F and the levels were 0 Ammonia 0 nitrite and I did a water change friday but before that the nitrate was at like 20-40 (it's been a really steady cycle since before I got them, no spikes that I know of and I've been diligent with testing) and I did like an 80% change so I'd say it's around 5 nitrate now.

Also I'm sure I'll get thrashed for this and I'm not sure it helps anything but I had a betta in there who had an accident and died (he lost almost his entire tail fin overnight from getting it stuck/ripped off from a decoration I think, it was really sad but I pretty much watched him die and got the guy out within an hour and thoroughly cleaned the tank 100% a couple weeks ago scrubbed everything except the filter media which I rinsed well with dechlorinated water) I did get another betta a few days ago but the frog's problem has been going on longer than that and I really didn't think his foot was anything more than stuck shed.

I just looked at him again and his foot seems fuzzy? it seems like more fungus than shed now...



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Old 16th March 2015   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

Chytrid treatments are antifungal, so they should be effective on a wide spectrum of fungal issues. Maroxy can also be used to treat more mild fungal infections in ADFs.



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Old 16th March 2015   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

Ahhh okay that makes sense, thank you so much for your help and information rachel! I'm going to go get what I need to treat this guy and his other froggy tank mate tomorrow



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Old 17th March 2015   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

So I tried to find the maroxy or the Benzalkonium Chloride but honestly I have no idea where to look for that except petsmart/ walmart and no where around me seemed to have it or anything really to treat amphibians just fish stuff...

Also my little guy completely shed all his skin, it was like whole? almost like when snakes shed their whole skin and you could tell where his head and feet were (he's in a little tub floating in the tank until I can figure out what to do so I know it was his shed) and he's been acting as usual no gasping at the top or showing any of the symptoms listed on there (he didn't eat yesterday but they usually only eat every other day anyways so I wasn't surprised by this as he did eat the day before)



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Old 22nd March 2015   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

So this frog is still alive and kicking...if it was chytrid I believe he'd be dead? (According to everything I read it sends like they usually die pretty quick? And he's been having his problems for at least 3 weeks...) The skin and muscles on his bad foot are completely gone. The bones are there and completely exposed. His coloring seems a little lighter than my other frog but he's always been a little lighter. This sick frog also hasn't eaten for about a week now but I think it's more cause he's so stressed about being in the quarantine tank floating in his larger tank than from being too sick... However he has had 2 complete and perfect sheds over the past weekish. I included one picture of him in his quarantine container next to his tank mate for comparison. Does anyone have any idea of what I should do? I'm thinking about amputating his bad foot, he can't really use it and the toes are pretty much gone...
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Old 22nd March 2015   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

Yeah, I agree you can rule out Chytrid. I still think it's a good idea to try to find the little guy some antibiotics, especially if you plan to amputate. Be aware that dwarf frogs do not regrow limbs, though it sounds like there's not much left at this point anyway. Has the infection spread up his leg at all, or is it just necrosis of the originally damaged tissue? Most pet stores have some medications in the fish section. You can find some broad spectrum antibiotics/antifungals on Aquabid.com if your local pet store doesn't carry any. Maroxy has both antifungals and antibacterial properties, and is sold with the fish meds. Another common recommendation is Maracyn (erythromycin) and Maracyn 2(minocyclene) combined, which are a good broad spectrum antibiotic. They will not be effective for fungus. Adding some methylene blue might help discourage fungal and bacterial proliferation, but it is a fairly weak antibiotic. I hope that's helpful, I'm rooting for your little guy.



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Old 22nd March 2015   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

The fungus did not go any further than his foot and what I would consider like the frog version of his calf? but the fungus looks to be gone and now the foot part with the toes is completely useless, just dangling, he can use the calf part though even though it's just bones and maybe muscle? (no skin at all, pretty disturbing....) but he is fairly active and he ate last night! I looked around for anything really for frogs but I guess I really didn't look hard enough I'll look around today again

Thank you so much for your help and opinions! I'm terrified to amputate but the foot is really just dangling and he can't use it at all... I'm guessing after I get the antibiotic or Maracyn and Maracyn 2 I should treat him with it then like cut the damaged foot off with scissors like an hour or so later? if this seems wrong or there's a better way please help, I'm so proud this little frog is such a fighter but I feel pretty bad for him I don't think the foot will fall off by itself but I think it could get caught on something and be ripped off...

Should I be adding a little aquarium salt to the tank to stave off anything like this happening again? (I have also never used aquarium salt so any suggestions here would be helpful and if this is a terrible idea please tell me!)



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Old 22nd March 2015   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

So as I was looking around and not finding anything I explained my problem to the guy at petland and he suggested furan 2 and he really seemed to know what he was talking about so I bought it, it's in powder packs and each pack is meant to treat a ten gallon...I really don't want to treat my whole 5 gallon with half a pack and besides that, I feel like using the correct dosage would be too strong/much for the frogs? So I was thinking of using like 1/8th of a packet on water in a separate 2.5-3 gallon bucket (this would make the meds at 50% power and keep me from treating the whole tank) and then just putting the injured frog in a half gallon tank of that concoction after the amputation. I would still float the 1/5 gallon in the regular tank so he stays warm but I really don't think I want the meds in the whole tank and going through all that mess,

Tl;dr;
I am planning on treating with 1/2 strength furan 2 in a separate thing of water so as not to treat the whole tank and mess up my cycle or mess with carbon to take the meds out of the water.
does this seem like an okay idea?



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Old 22nd March 2015   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

Sounds like a solid plan. Couldn't find much info on Furan 2 and dwarf frogs, but Caudata culture lists it as amphibian safe. It's a good broad spectrum antibiotic and antifungal. Let us know how he does with it.



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Old 23rd March 2015   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

So after treating water in the 3ish gallon bucket (1/8 of a packet) and letting a container of that mix get to tank temperature (as well as washing and rinsing a pair of scissors and my hands really well) I cut off the affected foot and then placed him in the treated water. All went well and he didn't even bleed, I'm not sure what I was expecting but it went very smoothly and quickly but it still made me feel terrible and sick

he looks good though the amputation was really clean and when I went to dump out the container he was in before I saw there was a bone (probably from his toe) that had already fallen off so I definitely think this was the right decision. I'll update again after the total furan 2 treatment but thanks for all the help especially you Rachel I have no idea what I would have done without your help :)

Any name ideas for my new gimp would be greatly appreciated :) (my big female frog doesn't have a name either, I was waiting to see what sex they were and I'm pretty sure now)
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Old 27th March 2015   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

So the little guy just finished his treatment with the furan 2 and I introduced him back to the tank, he seems to get around fine hopefully he'll gain a little weight back, he stopped eating a little before the amputation but he ate immediately after :)
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Old 27th March 2015   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

That looks like it healed up really well. So glad he's feeling better and out of the hospital tank!



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Old 27th March 2015   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

I even just caught him amplexing (I think?) with the female! I guess they missed each other :,)



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Old 5th May 2015   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF foot rotting off?

So it's been a little over a month since the amputation and now there is some growth on this guys foot. I really am not sure what this growth is, I realize his foot is not growing back but it's very strange and I'm wondering if I should think about cutting off this new growth in case it's something bad (I want to add here that I'm just as happy to sit back and wait to see what happens but if anyone thinks it could be bad I'm willing to do what needs to be done again.)? if anyone has any idea of what this could be I'd love to hear it!
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