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ADF's hard to keep alive?

This is a discussion on ADF's hard to keep alive? within the Pipidae: African Clawed Toads, Surinam Toads & Aquatic Frogs forums, part of the Anura: Frogs & Toads category; I've owned a total of 3 ADF's. My first one I had for about 2 months, the second two I ...

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Old 2nd May 2013   #1 (permalink)
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Default ADF's hard to keep alive?

I've owned a total of 3 ADF's. My first one I had for about 2 months, the second two I got together and they lasted about a week. All three died within a day of each other, so I'm now thinking that it was a water issue, even though my tests didn't show anything.

Anyway, when my first one died, I called my uncle who is also an aquarium hobbyist, and he said that he couldn't seem to keep his alive for long either. He went on to tell me that he spoke with a previous pet store owner who told him the little secret that many of the ADF's are inbred and you're lucky to keep them alive for more than 3 weeks tops.

After mine died I never bought anymore, but now I'm wanting some again. I was thinking maybe it's just the local batches of ADF's and maybe if I get some shipped to me that I'd have a better chance?

Tank set up:
10 gallon w/hood
filter that has very little water disturbance
airstone
80F
lots of hiding spaces
1 male betta (he's very calm and doesn't mind ADF's, in fact, last time I had them the ADF's actually approached him out of curiosity!)



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Old 2nd May 2013   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

This is my tank currently. I need to add some water but otherwise how do you think it's suited for ADF's?
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Old 3rd May 2013   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

ADF from the pets shops are prone to dying within a couple of weeks. They are raised en masse , shipped all over the world and not taken care of from their point of collection to the retail outlet. I have lost ten within a few weeks after purchasing from three separate shops over a couple of years, whilst I still have seven of the eight I got as rehomed adults . Some stores will not stock them due to the high mortality rates. If you can source cb ADF or re home adults you will have a better chance of keeping them alive. An alternate option to that species would be ACF (Xenopus).



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Old 3rd May 2013   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

I've also bought several ADF's from Petland to have them die within a week. The lady told me to make sure my tank was well cycled and had been running with fish in it for At Least a couple months. Also never do 100 percent water changes or it will kill them. I usually don't believe much of what they say (based on lots of bad advice from there), but I have managed to raise two female ADF's to adulthood this time. I made sure my tank was running with some tetras for several months first. I didn't do much different except smaller water changes, maybe I just got lucky this time? Good luck, and keep trying, your bound to get a survivor eventually :)



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Old 3rd May 2013   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

Dwarf clawed frogs are picky eaters. They need live food or frozen food. Often they are not fed properly and starve to death.



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Old 3rd May 2013   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

These are often infected with chytrid, too, which has been associated with increased mortality in this species. I would advise getting your animals tested and/or treating them (and the tank) as it is likely that they have the disease. If it is present, then any new, uninfected animals will just catch it when you introduce them.

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Old 4th May 2013   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

Thanks, just to clarify, I'm talking African Dwarf Frogs, NOT the clawed frog :)



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Old 4th May 2013   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

Yes, these frogs are often infected with chytrid.



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Old 4th May 2013   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

Both xenopus and hymenochirus are potential carriers of chytrid, they may suffer no ill effects when healthy but when their immune system is compromised they can may suffer a chytrid attack which is generally fatal to them without treatment. Hymenochirus are captive farmed, the process of shipping them around the world causes them stress and the poor conditions they are kept in lowers their immune systems. Xenopus are generally cb and dont get treated as badly when shipped within a country.



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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylerwin View Post
Thanks, just to clarify, I'm talking African Dwarf Frogs, NOT the clawed frog :)
What genus are you talking about? My guess was Hymenochirus (dwarf clawed frogs). Or ADCF. When talking about common names and initials it is easy to not clearly communicate.



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Old 4th May 2013   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?



Genus: Hymenochirus
^^
Genus name was taken off of wikipedia, so I'm crossing my fingers hoping it's the correct one!



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Old 4th May 2013   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

When young, African dwarf frogs can be mistaken and sold as African clawed frogs, African frogs of the genus Xenopus, which are larger and more aggressive than the dwarf.
^^also wikipedia, but again, I am not speaking of the clawed frog.



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Old 4th May 2013   #13 (permalink)
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Wink Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

I'm glad you found a good resource like wikipedia to rely on.



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Old 4th May 2013   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylerwin View Post
When young, African dwarf frogs can be mistaken and sold as African clawed frogs, African frogs of the genus Xenopus, which are larger and more aggressive than the dwarf.
^^also wikipedia, but again, I am not speaking of the clawed frog.
Yes we know.....
The frog you are talking about is the African dwarf frog (Hymenochirus), or as Michael correctly called it "African dwarf clawed frog", most people miss the "clawed" out



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Old 5th May 2013   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

Remembered this thread when I went to my local aquatics store today. As nice as the guys are there, and as healthy as their stock usually is, they do stock some oddities which I find strange... Albino dwarf frogs...the creme-de-la-creme of inbred short-lived dwarf frogs. Surely they must know that they drop like flies?



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Old 5th May 2013   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jane1187 View Post
Remembered this thread when I went to my local aquatics store today. As nice as the guys are there, and as healthy as their stock usually is, they do stock some oddities which I find strange... Albino dwarf frogs...the creme-de-la-creme of inbred short-lived dwarf frogs. Surely they must know that they drop like flies?
Albino adf in the UK ? havent seen them yet. Do they really have a shorter life expectency ?



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Old 5th May 2013   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

Please, no need to be rude. I understand that wikipedia is NOT reliable, thus my "crossing fingers hoping info is correct" because honestly, that's all you can do with wikipedia.

I easily get confused on how to specify which frog I speak of, because the frog I am referring to has claws, but so does the one I'm trying to avoid >.<

I did not mean to be rude in any way by posting the wikipedia quote, it simply helped word what I failed to explain (or thought so.)

Just understand that I am a simple pet owner, and I am not familiar with the scientific name or genus of certain species.

ANYWAY,
how would one treat for chytrid? Is it dangerous to treat for it if it's unknown if they have it? If so, is there a way to test them for it? After my last batch of frogs died, my betta fish got an infection, which I thought was fin rot, but this new information might point otherwise.

Thanks folks for being so helpful. I'm new to keeping aquariums, so I apologize if there is poor communication.



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Old 6th May 2013   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

I don't know about life expectancy Ian, but considering ordinary wild- type are heavily inbred I can only imagine these are too. If I wasn't sceptical I might buy a few and see, but I'm not one to waste my money. I'll have a little research online.

Cytrid is a largely amphibian fungus, so your betta will not necessarily be at risk. It is more likely to fight off any fungal infection than a frog.

Cytrid is common amongst wild frogs of both species we've been talking about, so it is only a risk to them if they are stressed and prone to disease. They are 'used' to the disease, if that makes sense. Treatment is not easy and requires strong anti-fungal treatment.

Cytrid however is DISASTEROUS for other amphibians, and the death rate is very high, so unless you have other frogs or newts I wouldn't be too concerned. I don't want to worry you too much, as cytrid is not very common in the pet trade amongst captive bred animals. It is resent in the wild in the UK now so just make sure you wash your hands after going pond-dipping.

If you are concerned you can always ask the advice of a specialist exotic vet, if you want to.

As has already been mentioned your frogs were likely doomed from the start being inbred.



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Old 8th May 2013   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

Thanks Jane!



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Default Re: ADF's hard to keep alive?

Hi Sylerwin,

I've had two African dwarf frogs for nearly two years now. I'm not all that scientific and just recently bought my first water testing kit. I don't know much about the genus types, etc. (I took the Biology 160 lab course that I needed for my major and never looked back.)

I'm also new to the group and wanted to share some of my experiences with these cute little aquatic frogs. Two years ago I bought a couple from Petco and they died within a week. I searched Yelp.com for ratings/reviews on neighborhood/family-owned fish stores in my city and purchased two fat healthy little frogs from the one with the best ratings and pertinent feedback. I still have these two little guys today and they are the easiest pets that I have.

Back in 1999 I bought my dad an African dwarf frog for his birthday. It was in this tiny little decorated cube at the local drugstore with a little envelope of food taped to the side. PATHETIC, right?!!! My dad loved this frog. He found him this cool seamless 5 gallon glass aquarium at the thrift store. He drove up into the mountains and collected some river stones and driftwood. He never used a filter, heater, airstone, or checked the water parameters with a water testing kit. He kept his tank on the edge of his desk, bought him those plants that float along the top and fed him a half cube of frozen blood worms everyday. Once a week, he used a tiny siphon/gravel vacuum to do half water changes and to suck up uneaten food and waste, etc. He also kept the tank 2/3 full so that the frog could easily get to the surface for his little gulps of air. Over the years my dad and "Froggy" were quite happy. Froggy shed his skin regularly and periodically sang his mating song, which sounds like the low hum of a fluorescent light bulb. Attached is a pictured of Froggy at about age 4-5. He passed away last year at age 13. He was nearly blind and showed his age, however, ate and interacted regularly until he passed away quietly of old age.

Now I have not been as fortunate as to hear my frogs' mating songs or witness them shed their skin, but I keep them in the same conditions my dad did. I haven't had any issues. They are active and have fat little bellies.

I don't know if anything I shared with you is at all helpful, but I hope so.

Good Luck,

Christy
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