Where on earth do you purchase a caecilian?

[Hayden]

Where on earth do you purchase a caecilian? I want one so badly, but I simply cannot find one.
In other news, my 18th birthday is this Friday, if anyone has a few extras laying around. :P

[eljorgo]

Whats does your birthday have to do with finding caecillians? One does not simply post its birthday and relates it to animals, it rather post a thread showing it has the skills and conditions to maintain them OK and healthy... If i had them for sale or trade i would like finding someone who has the conditions to keep one or a few, rather than find and reply to someone whose interest is pointing its own birthday...
Cheers and good luck nonetheless

[FrogEyes]

Caecilians are almost always wild-caught and are only sporadically available [mainly from West Africa. I haven't seen any available since last summer, although I certainly don't check all sources.

[Hayden]

Originally Posted by eljorgo

Whats does your birthday have to do with finding caecillians? One does not simply post its birthday and relates it to animals, it rather post a thread showing it has the skills and conditions to maintain them OK and healthy... If i had them for sale or trade i would like finding someone who has the conditions to keep one or a few, rather than find and reply to someone whose interest is pointing its own birthday...
Cheers and good luck nonetheless

I was making the joke that if somebody had an "extra," they should send it to me as a birthday gift. I wasn't trying to just advertise my birthday on the Caecilian board.

Originally Posted by FrogEyes

Caecilians are almost always wild-caught and are only sporadically available [mainly from West Africa. I haven't seen any available since last summer, although I certainly don't check all sources.

That's disappointing. I really hate to buy wild caught. Do you know the reason for this? Are they hard to breed in captivity, or are they simply so obscure that no one is breeding them yet, at least not on a scale to where they would be available en masse?

[FrogEyes]

Of the relatively small number which come into captivity, I expect the vast majority die without ever coming close to captive breeding. Any which are produced in captivity are so few in number that your chance of finding any are almost non-existant. They're not bearded dragons.

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Hayden

That's disappointing. I really hate to buy wild caught. Do you know the reason for this? Are they hard to breed in captivity, or are they simply so obscure that no one is breeding them yet, at least not on a scale to where they would be available en masse?

1) Only a very small number of caecilians are imported.
2) Of that small number, most die rather quickly.
3) With the few that remain, chances are very slim that you'll have a mixed-sex group.

The chances of finding a captive-bred caecilian are so small, they border on impossible.

[spawn13]

While I too can a test to having issues finding caecilians they do turn up now and again. They seem to turn up during summer months in U.S. I am sure I am late to the party but this is no way to aide the hobby or the discipline of herpetology. You guys were pessimist at best. There are some organizations out there that are attempting breeder programs i.e amphibian ark,a few Universities and zoos. I would say stay on the hunt and read all you can and complete a set-up before you purchase. In my exp the West African species like acidic loamy soil and do not like it as wet. I also kept them room temp and fed European night crawlers. There is a learning curb to keeping caecilians. So in some respect I do agree with the others this is a species for the well informed keeper. Please continue your trek and do your research. Good Luck!!!!

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by yama

While I too can a test to having issues finding caecilians they do turn up now and again. They seem to turn up during summer months in U.S. I am sure I am late to the party but this is no way to aide the hobby or the discipline of herpetology. You guys were pessimist at best. There are some organizations out there that are attempting breeder programs i.e amphibian ark,a few Universities and zoos. I would say stay on the hunt and read all you can and complete a set-up before you purchase. In my exp the West African species like acidic loamy soil and do not like it as wet. I also kept them room temp and fed European night crawlers. There is a learning curb to keeping caecilians. So in some respect I do agree with the others this is a species for the well informed keeper. Please continue your trek and do your research. Good Luck!!!!

Hold on Yama, I did not say caecilians do not turn up. They do turn up in the late spring and early summer here in the US. I said CAPTIVE-BRED caecilians do not turn up, which is not pessimistic, it is true. There are some institutions out there that are ATTEMPTING to breed caecilians, and one university in Germany that has had limited success. Here is the thing about zoos and universities: Animals such as caecilians born in zoos and universities tend to STAY in zoos and universities. A perfect example of this is the Ambystoma Genetic Stock Center at the University of Kentucky and axolotls. Axolotls are quite common, but unless you are a zoo, university, or similar institution, you are not getting an axolotl from the Ambystoma Genetic Stock Center. You can't just go to a zoo and ask for some captive-bred caecilians.

Also, zoos and universities have a lot more resources than the common exotic amphibian breeder; they have the space for and means to obtain sizable groups of caecilians to start with. With the current lack of information on caecilians diseases and breeding techniques, it is impractical and nearly impossible for the private individual or company to breed caecilians for the exotic amphibian hobby.

Now, having said all this, I certainly encourage people to enter the caecilian keeping hobby! My intention was not to discourage Hayden from keeping caecilians, but to explain why it is not possible at this time to acquire captive-bred caecilians. By all means, give caecilian keeping a try! But do not expect to find captive-bred caecilians.

[FrogEyes]

Ditto what Zark has said. Adding to that, universities and zoos [especially the former] frequently obtain their animals from the pet trade, barring having a researcher on staff who has done field work with a particular species.

[spawn13]

Thomas thax for clearing that up. I have to agree. Your not going to find captive breed terrestrial caecilians in the trade. However the aquatic species do come in gravid from time to time. I too use to agree with only going captive breed. However in some instances it should be okay private sector to keep and breed certain rare species. I do think there should be protocols. For instance are there anypeople working with the pacific salamander? (captive projects I mean) How many people have or are working with A. androsoni not to mention our favorite caecilians. Most of these species are at risk and may be on their way out like the wild axolotl. My intent was to offer encouragement for young herp keepers who seem to be really spirited about the hobby and maybe a career. This young man could go to college and maybe spearhead an organization to aide in the conservation through propagation of the species. Apologies if i misinterperted what you guys where saying. It was early in the morn as I do battle with insomnia at the time it sounded harsh. I will revisit. Thax for keeping this forum active. I hate they shutdown the other link.

[browbli]

I professionally take care of the largest group of caecilians in any american collections. I have had parti in breeding gaboon caciliands, potomotyphlus, and typhlonectes. I am also working currently on breeding dermophis. That being said I have not found anything for my personal collection since a few ichthyophis larvae in 2007.

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by browbli

I professionally take care of the largest group of caecilians in any american collections. I have had parti in breeding gaboon caciliands, potomotyphlus, and typhlonectes. I am also working currently on breeding dermophis. That being said I have not found anything for my personal collection since a few ichthyophis larvae in 2007.

Would this collection perhaps be at the Sedgwick County Zoo in Wichita, KS? I am a friend of Nate Nelson.

[browbli]

And circle gets the square

[daedae]

Housing a caecilian can prove to be difficult as well. The vast majority are ground dwelling burrowers, and you won't likely see them above ground at all. That's why most hobbyists keep them in fully aquatic setups, which in my opinion, is far from ideal for the animal itself. It would likely be stressed out and succumb to disease easier. It's like keeping a Tiger Salamander fully aquatic, it's just not right.

Most people let their obsession with a rare or odd animal get the better of them, and instead of thinking about the best possible care of the creature, they go with the enclosures with the most visibility.

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by daedae

Housing a caecilian can prove to be difficult as well. The vast majority are ground dwelling burrowers, and you won't likely see them above ground at all. That's why most hobbyists keep them in fully aquatic setups, which in my opinion, is far from ideal for the animal itself. It would likely be stressed out and succumb to disease easier. It's like keeping a Tiger Salamander fully aquatic, it's just not right.

Most people let their obsession with a rare or odd animal get the better of them, and instead of thinking about the best possible care of the creature, they go with the enclosures with the most visibility.

Um... They keep them in fully-aquatic setups because the species they are keeping are fully-aquatic. Aquatic caecilian genuses include: Typhlonectes, Potomotyphlus, and Atretochoana among others. Keeping caecilians from any of these genuses in a terrestrial setup would be harmful to the animal in question.

[Wes]

I have seen a couple of the terrestrials on KS, rarely. I would love to find one of the fully aquatics, haven't seen them in a long time in the pet trade, though they use to be everywhere, even walmart had em. AND BE NICE FOLKS

[jane1187]

Just for people's information and not to be taken to offend anyone but there is someone I've made contact with in the UK who has sucessfully bred caecilians and has them for sale once a year when they breed. I do not recall which species as I have not spoken to him in a while but they were fully aquatic species often sold as 'rubber eels'.

As far as I know though that is the only captive breeding of caecilians I've ever heard of.

And unfortunately for you all he lives in the UK Sorry.

[Rodrigo]

It was probably Typhlonectes or Potomotyphlus, what that guy breeds and although they are not commonly bred, there have been quite a few successful breedings for some years now. A nice achievement, for sure,but not unique at all.

[FrogEyes]

The latest price list from a distributor in Hollywood Florida lists "African caecilians" for the first time this year. Experience says these will be a mix o Herpele squalostoma and Geotrypetes seraphini.

[Coastal Groovin]

I just saw two species for sale this past Monday. I won't tell you where because I'm going to do you a favor and save you bunch of money by stopping you from buying them.