| Author | Message | ||
     Tim (Tj)  Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1002 Joined: 10-2002 |
Has anybody seen or heard of this, know what causes it and/or how it can be treated?  (Message edited by TJ on December 19, 2003) | ||
| Kaysie Cox (Kaysie) Caudata.org Donor Posts: 230 Joined: 03-2003 |
my guesses: tumor, or blockage of the gland (resembling lymphoma in humans)? poor thing. Wickedness is a myth invented by good people to account for the curious attractiveness of others. -Oscar Wilde- | ||
| Jennifer Macke (Jennewt) Caudata.org Moderator  Posts: 262 Joined: 10-2002 |
It could also be a parasite. With several possibilities, it's difficult to suggest a therapy. | ||
| Dean Taylor (Newtboy) Active Member Posts: 59 Joined: 12-2003 |
Has this grew over time or was it the same as the time when you purchased it? How old and what age is the caudate? Dean Taylor  misjudged@hotmail.com | ||
| Edward Kowalski (Ed) Caudata.org Site Contributor Posts: 167 Joined: 11-2001 |
Swellings of the paratoid glands are not that uncommon in amphibians and can be indicative of infections (such as abscesses), blockages (such as by parasites), and/or tumours. Basically the best route is to get your vet to do a needle biopsy and then open up the gland and clean it and administer an antibiotic if the problem is infectious or to help prevent an infection. Ed | ||
| Tim (Tj) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1018 Joined: 10-2002 |
Thanks a lot everybody. I have a herp vet in mind who might be able to help, only this vet specializes in reptiles, not amphibians, and it's the holidays. I've had this newt for over a year, but the prob just developed in the last couple of weeks. Seems to be getting worse so I'd better take some sort of action soon...  | ||
| Tim (Tj) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1020 Joined: 10-2002 |
By the way, in case nobody noticed, Santa brought me a macro lens for Christmas!  | ||
| John Clare (John) Caudata.org Founder  Posts: 644 Joined: 12-2001 |
Hi Tim, sorry to hear your newt has this problem. I hope it gets well soon. Mind me asking what lens you are using? (i.e. make and model) I'm assuming you're using the Canon DSLR.  John Clare, Administrator of Caudata.org See my Profile and my Home Page. If you are looking for something different, why not browse my Photo Galleries. | ||
| Tim (Tj) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1021 Joined: 10-2002 |
Hi John, yes, it's the Canon "Rebel" digital SLR with an EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact-Macro Lens. "A superior-performance lens offering excellent optics and focusing from infinity down to one-half life size (0.5x). Its nine-element design features a floating optical system, which ensures top-notch performance even at close focusing distances. Light and compact, it functions beautifully as a general-purpose normal lens. The optional accessory Life Size Converter EF enables focusing down to life size (1:1), and actually increases working distance - very desireable in close-up shooting." (Canon) | ||
| John Clare (John) Caudata.org Founder Posts: 645 Joined: 12-2001 |
Yes, the digital rebel is stealing the show at the moment as far as the budget DSLR scene goes. That's quite a lens you have there - thanks for telling me the model. Beautiful photos, but a shame about the subject ;(. Thanks for sharing. John Clare, Administrator of Caudata.org See my Profile and my Home Page. If you are looking for something different, why not browse my Photo Galleries. | ||
| Tim (Tj) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1023 Joined: 10-2002 |
Thanks John. Well, The swelling increased considerably so I hurried the animal to a herp vet today as Ed suggested and had the liquid drawn. A lot of it was blood. Problem was that even after it was emptied using a syringe, it filled back up again and again. And the vet cautioned that opening up the gland might cause bleeding that couldn't be stopped. I was referred to an amphibian specialist, to which I will try to take it tomorrow. The biopsy showed the presence of some unidentified bacteria ("long and thin"). The vet orally administered the antibiotic Enrofloxacin (Baytril) in liquid form. Doesn't look good but I'm hoping for the best! Disappointing...I can't find any mention of any such condition affecting the parotoid glands in "Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry", which I recently bought. | ||
| A J J (Ajfr0ggy) Junior Member Posts: 20 Joined: 07-2003 |
I had a whites treefrog which died of a similar problem, the swelling grew rapidly. It must have affected innside the ear as its sense of balance was badle affected, and it wasnt able to change the shape of its pupil on that side properly. Please keep me updated on this, as i am worried that another would catch it. AJfr0ggy | ||
| Tim (Tj) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1024 Joined: 10-2002 |
Took it to a vet with experience with amphibians. The liquid drawn today was unexpectedly (for the vet) almost all blood, whereas yesterday it was mostly clear lympth liquid to start with, followed by blood. The vet decided against opening up the area as it keeps filling up, even after being drained. No bacteria were found this time, however. Seems there are a few possibilities, including a problem vein, an infection, or something to do with the lymphatics. Could be something along the lines of "edema syndrome", which is in fact described in some detail in the book I mentioned above. For treatment, I was prescribed some more Enrofloxacin, and I am to add several drops of this into a small amount of water and then soak the newt in there for about 10-15 minutes at a time. AJJ, thanks for the pic of your frog that you kindly sent. Seems this is fairly common in frogs, though it may or may not be what my newt's suffering from. Sorry to hear the frog didn't make it. Here's the newt just before the fluid was drawn, the fluid being drawn, the fluid being checked for bacteria, and the newt afterward, with fluid accumulating again.      (Message edited by TJ on December 30, 2003) | ||
| John Clare (John) Caudata.org Founder Posts: 648 Joined: 12-2001 |
Tim, that photo series is nothing short of awesome. I think Jen might be interested in putting it on Caudata Culture. What do you think Jen? I hope your sick newt recovers - I'll keep my fingers crossed. John Clare, Administrator of Caudata.org See my Profile and my Home Page. If you are looking for something different, why not browse my Photo Galleries. | ||
| Tim (Tj) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1027 Joined: 10-2002 |
Thanks John. Well, it would have been awesome had I managed to take pics on the visit to the first vet as well. Brought the camera but forgot the memory card  It was very interesting to see how the two vets handled the newt (i.e. the different restraint techniques), one with a moist towel and the other with moist hands. Would have been nice to show how the first vet gently pried open the mouth to administer the liquid -- something that has to be done VERY carefully in order not to damage/dislocate the jaw -- using what appeared to be a tomcat catheter. The first vet is a reptile specialist, the second vet a frog specialist. I'll undoubtedly be making numerous visits to the second vet in the days to come! Hey, I really do like the idea of having photo series covering from the point of problem detection to the point of recovery or otherwise. This could be done for a variety of afflictions, from damaged tails or missing toes to more difficult problems like bloat. By the way, the newt's condition looked relatively OK today. I didn't expect it would eat but it did, feeding quite actively on frozen bloodworm. I'm keeping it on moss. As per the vet's instructions, I gave it a 10-minute soak (to be administered once a day) in shallow water (covering only about half it's body) to which the antibiotic drops have been added. On my own initiative, I then filled up the small container with water to allow the newt to feed on bloodworm for another 15 minutes before returning it to the moss. I'm supposed to wait and see if the swelling doesn't subside over time through absorption. At least it doesn't seem to be getting worse than it was at its worst  | ||
| Edward Kowalski (Ed) Caudata.org Site Contributor Posts: 173 Joined: 11-2001 |
Hi Tim, Just a suggestion, but either wait longer before feeding the newt or feed it before soaking as the second soak will remove any unabsorbed antibiotics from the skin which could change the dosing levels. (any by the way very nice pics). Just remember (if I have my facts right) that if anyone ever takes Desmognathine salamanders to the vet the lower jaw is stationary and the upper jaw lifts up. The vet could break the lower jaw by trying to depress it to open the jaw. When I restrain amphibs for the vets (other than caecilians) I prefer using wet hands as I can control the animal better. We also rewet our hands and the amphib in longer treatments to prevent ant chance of the skin drying out. Ed | ||
| Tim (Tj) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1051 Joined: 10-2002 |
Ed, good suggestion, and one which I have followed since reading it! The newt is doing quite well. The antibiotic treatment is being continued, and the swelling has gone down. It continues to have a very good appetite.  | ||
| Ralf Reinartz (Ralf) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 231 Joined: 11-2002 |
Good news! Thanks for the update, Tim. Ralf | ||
| Tim (Tj) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1056 Joined: 10-2002 |
Sure thing Here's a pic of the newt being medicated. Five drops of antibiotic fluid are added to the water, which is supposed to cover about half the newt's body so it can be absorbed well. And the timer, of course! | ||
| Edward Kowalski (Ed) Caudata.org Site Contributor Posts: 181 Joined: 11-2001 |
Glad to hear it Tim, Ed | ||
| Tim (Tj) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1102 Joined: 10-2002 |
Thanks, Ed. It's looking better and better..I'm consulting with the vet now on when to discontinue the antibiotic treatment.  | ||
| Tim (Tj) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1131 Joined: 10-2002 |
It's recovered and now off medication Here's a pic taken by my vet of the extracted liquid, showing blood cells but no bacteria (if I'm not mistaken...):  | ||
| John Clare (John) Caudata.org Founder Posts: 832 Joined: 12-2001 |
Tim, how about turning this into an article for the magazine too ;). It's fantastic. John Clare (in Dublin, Ireland), Administrator & Owner of Caudata.org See my Profile and my Home Page. If you are looking for something different, why not browse my Photo Galleries. | ||
| Tim (Tj) Caudata.org DonorPosts: 1133 Joined: 10-2002 |
Well, I do like the idea. I wish I'd researched/documented this case better from the onset of illness though. But I think an article would need medical analysis from somebody like Ed to pan out. It'd be great if the magazine could have a regular section on medical treatment! Those articles could also become part of the Caudate Culture website | ||
| Edward Kowalski (Ed) Caudata.org Site Contributor Posts: 190 Joined: 11-2001 |
Hi Tim, I can review it for you to see if it works even though I am not a vet and wouldn't want to double guess a medical treatment. Just let me know what kind of help you would like... Ed | ||
| John Clare (John) Caudata.org Founder Posts: 835 Joined: 12-2001 |
If you need any help to make it happen, let me know . John Clare (in Dublin, Ireland), Administrator & Owner of Caudata.org See my Profile and my Home Page. If you are looking for something different, why not browse my Photo Galleries. |
