Soil Ingredients

Would these two soils, with these ingredients be okay for a Tiger Salamander? I don't feed him in his enclosure, so this is not an impaction question.

First soil:

Aged and processed softwood bark and sawdust, sphagnum peat moss, pumice, sand, and composted animal manures.

Second soil:

Aged and processed softwood bark and sawdust, sphagnum peat moss, pumice, and composted animal manures. (no sand)

Neither is going to be appropriate. You don't want anything containing sphagnum or manure.

Go outside and dig a shovel full of dirt. That would work just fine. Or you can use coco fiber (which is commonly sold in 'bricks' that have to be soaked).

I have kept Ambystoma maculatum, Ambystoma texanum, Ambystoma hybrids, and Ambystoma tigrinum on pure long fiber Wisconsin sphagnum for years with no problems. When moist it clumps well and allows them to construct burrow systems.

I have heard that low pH is a problem with sphagnum and I will go out on a limb to state that is load of hooey.

-Tim

The dirt here holds no moisture, and it's winter, there's 3 feet of snow on the ground, so I can't go out and get some lol.

I just have the soil mixed with coco fiber, the coco fiber doesn't really hold a lot of moisture, but the soil really holds in moisture, and in Alaska that can be quite a challenge, especially in the winter.

Coco-fiber SHOULD hold moisture well. Mine does. It may help if you cover it with a layer of Repti-Bark or cypress mulch.

I checked what the Wright&Whitaker book has to say about amphib substrates, and the bottom line is: manure bad, peat moss bad, potting soil (i.e., surfactants, fertilizer, perlite, styrofoam) bad, cedar and pine bad, hardwood mulch good, outdoor soil OK, sphagnum moss OK. I can give more detailed info from the book, if anyone wants it.

I would still say it's worth testing the pH of the sphagnum and giving some discretion about what species it is used with, but evidently it gets the OK from W&W.

Why is it bad specifically, I can't find anything on the net or books that says it's bad, the only thing they say about soil is to make sure it does not have any plant growth things in it, like miracle grow, etc..

Sphagnum can be acidic. What about mixing sphagnum and coco fiber? I've never tried it, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Sorry, I meant, whats so bad about the soils? The manure part of it.
Is it because the animal would basically be absorbing bacteria from the waste through their skin?

I'm not using any sphagnum moss, I have a different kind.

Also, what's the best way to keep the coco fiber moist, just spray it a lot and cover it with moss, or mulch??
Or?

W&W says "Manure containing compost should be avoided altogether, because it is too acidic and there are often undesirable chemicals present." They don't say what kinds of chemicals, but agricultural animals are often fed antibiotics, hormones, etc. I actually have my doubts about the "acidic" part. From what I've seen, manure tends to be full of ammonia and generally have a high pH, not low.

You can also help keep the coco fiber moist by covering part of the screen lid with plastic. Also, having a thicker layer of it helps keep it moist. I usually pour water on it (in one corner of the tank), rather than spraying.

Ok, thank you, I'm going to finish out the bag of the coco fiber we have now, and trash the soil, I told my mom what you all said.

Then were just going to buy it in the bricks because the bag is almost 12 dollars for the same amount in a brick and the brick is only 5 dollars, so...good deal!

And, on the plus side of going to Petco to look at what they had, they had the only earthworms in town! yay!
And there small ones ironically enough

Kaysie said:

Sphagnum can be acidic. What about mixing sphagnum and coco fiber? I've never tried it, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Click to expand...

I use this mixture extensively with my burrowing species, it holds tunnels and burrows wonderfully. I collect my own sphagnum so I don't know if thats why I haven't noticed any ph problems. Hope this helps some.

I would like to add to the discussion on 'sphagnum' - regarding sphagnum, there is much confusion.... as there are various substances referred to as 'sphagnum'. If you purchase a commercially available product in the US in a garden store, very generally, you may be getting one of two substances, one being a 'sphagnum' moss often used by florists for flower arranging that does not appear to be acidic. If you go into a garden center and purchase sphagnum peat moss (typically Canadian) it has a low pH usually around 3 - 4. This product is often used to augment a basic soil towards neutrality - when wet, peat releases tannic and gallic acids. Here is an MSDS sheet for sphagnum peat moss - note the pH range albeit this will vary depending on the vendor and lot:

http://www.peatmoss.com/pdf/msds.pdf

As a Master Gardener, I have seen some vendors offering tighter specs with pHs of 3 - 3.5.

Here is an old discussion on the issue including cation loss in caudates secondary to an acidic environment:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50568

IMO, to broadly state that a product is safe - may be dangerous.

As noted in this thread, it may be collected, or a positive experience with a specific type can be noted. There is just too much variability in the various substances lumped into the broad desctiptor of 'sphagnum'.

I would caution that if 'sphagnum' will be used as a substrate that the pH should be tested unless you are using a known, 'tried and true' entitiy.

Peat moss is acidic. Sphagnum, on the other hand, is known not to be and is purposely avoided by carnivorous plant growers for this reason. I like it because it holds more moisture than coco coir and I can collect it near my house. They do sell decomposed sphagnum moss, which they call peat sphagnum and is acidic.