I don't know what to do!!

Hi Guys!

Our local aquarium store where I 'rescued' my Axie from are selling a numbner of them and there are a few things I know from my experience here that they are doing wrong.

• Number of Axies in the same tank. When I bought mine, they had a tank no bigger than two feet by two feet, and barely 2 inches of water. There must have been four leucistics in there about 4-5 inches long (I bought one of those) and at least fifteen wildtype axies in there also of about 3 inches long each. I know this isn't big enough to keep them in even to sell them, and the size difference between them is clearly a danger to the smaller ones.
• Incorrect Substrate. They are keeping the axies in a gravel based tank, but are a number of pebbles which could cause severe problems if swallowed by the axies.
• Lack of plant life. There were none at all, indicating that the water levels could be way out of balance.
• Feeding Habits. On a number of occasions, I saw the staff waving a FROZEN block of bloodworm in their faces and they were swallowing them whole. I know frozen food can cause major issues if it not correctly defrosted and rinsed first.
• Incorrect labelling. They are selling them as 'Albino Axolotls' and 'Black Axolotls' when neither of these tags are correct.

I was in there on Sunday and somebody was asking how to care for them. The staff said, and I quote:

"You can just chuck them in your existing goldfish tank! And you can also keep them in a pond with other fish!"

I don't want to preach to them, but I don't like the way they keep them. I'd love to go in and buy them all, but as soon as they run out, they have another stocked tank of about 30 Axies crammed in together.

What should I do??

Cheers, (a very concerned) Mike.

I really wouldn't be able to not say anything.
Can you not ask for a word with the manger

If you could give the right info and they listened that would be great!

I'd at least try, its so awful that they can do this
Is there no one to report them to?

Mel

Hi!

Thing is, they don't strike me as the type of people to take kindly to 'advice'. The guy seems nice enough, but you know when you just get that impression from someone...

Cheers, Mike.

Awww that's bad.

Its hard to tell people stuff when you know they are not going to listen and who are just going to say well so and so did it like this etc.

I don't know what to advise, I'm not sure if you can report the conditions or whether they are deemed as acceptable! (by others!)

Someone else might be able to advise on who they can be reported to.

Sorry I couldn't help

Mel

I had a similar experience years ago, back when axies were still legal in California. The staff at a shop were less than pleasant at my offer of suggestions...however California law dictates that care sheets must be provided with any pet sale...so, I went home, wrote up a care sheet, added a link to axolotl.org on it (That's where I learned axies from....), and offered it to the manager. Within two days their dispaly was set up properly, and I had a deal trading my extra larvae for earthworms and equipment!

I guess what I am getting at, is sometimes you have to present information from a buisnessman's perspective. Suggestions like, "You know, you folks would probably get more repeat customers selling these with the addition of a caresheet..." and then follow that up with something like, "Yeah, these critters are money making machines for pet shops...all the filters and water treatments and live foods you have to buy to keep them healthy...they can live for ten years or more when well kept!" Statements like that, inserted into friendly conversation, work very well and create an environment of business that works out well for all involved.

I found quite often, if I put it in terms of dollars and cents (or Pounds Sterling and pence) Even the stodgiest store owner warms to my "friendly" advice. Then they strip me of my beer money while I buy water chemistry test kit refills....)

Yet another pet shop in California decided to pay me in store credit for supplies if I would come in twice a month and hold "customer seminars" on non traditional pets like caudates and chameleons. Quite a few times I had to visit books and websites to verify what I thought I knew was valid information, but the extra effort was worth it.

Currently, I have been working very closely with a local shop that, up until now, I refused to go to due to their poor treatment of animals and their distribution of wild caught animals. But, after being challenged by my wife to "Quit b!@#@$ing and do something about it" we have made friends with the owners, and provide technical advice on all sorts of critters!

We worked hard and hooked them up with captive breeders from all over the country. They discovered CB animals have a higher profit margin with lower moratality rates. We even convinced them to quit selling puppies and kittens from mills, and instead use the space to provide adoption clinics!


My advice ( unintentionally sounding harsh) is to belly up and work for the cause you are passionate about! If, your attempts are for naught, at least you have the self satisfaction of knowing you tried! It can be hard at times, but remember, you cannot always save them all. The pet trade can be very harsh sometimes, but do not let it discourage you!

Hi JSludge!

Thanks so much for your help! I think I'll do just that!!! You've lifted a huge weight off of my shoulders!!

I'll keep you updated!!

Cheers, Mike.

If Sludgemonkey/Johnnys' idea doesn't work don't be afraid to just give your opinion.

I have no issue with using my sweetest most innocent voice and saying, "you know, when I tried that the animal died. But then? I went to this site online, A-x-o-l-o-t-l.org, and learned the proper way to care for them." At this point the salesperson will give you a dirty look and the customer might look uncomfortable but interested. Then you make your key points, "1. they need to live alone, no mixing species, but 2. they don't need a heater and they love frozen bloodworms (something the petshop probably sells), 3. they like sand (and point out the stores pricey sand) or bare bottom tanks... etc etc etc.

I do this all the time at walfart. The most uneducated bunch of yahoos working the pet section ever. I actually heard a salesman tell someone that she could put 2 or 3 bettas in a goldfish bowl. I HAD to speak up.

AND I do this at my local fish store. They're pretty good with reptiles but refuse to house amphibians properly. I usually talk the sales people into selling me the half dead specimens at a huge discount and I suggest they write them off as dead. After 3 "dead" shipments (I bought 2) they quit ordering them. BUT it helps I have a friend who works there.

Congrats on trying to make things a little better where you are!

SludgeMunkey said:

...however California law dictates that care sheets must be provided with any pet sale...so, I went home, wrote up a care sheet, added a link to axolotl.org on it (That's where I learned axies from....), and offered it to the manager. Within two days their dispaly was set up properly, ...

Click to expand...

That is a good idea. I´ve done it here in Germany, too. (But without the link to axolotl.org. I added the link to our german ambystoma-board). ..............and it works

-Tina-

If I were you OP I would contact the RSPCA.

Just because axies aren't furry doesn't mean that the RSPCA should allow them to be abused.

If I went into a pet shop and saw that I would go bonkers, in a polite and pleasant manner.

Guys, what you are offering is fantastic!

Especially Johnny & Sharon! I can say that because I met so many thick-headed managers in my life and simpy amazad they get their positions!!! I myself have my Masters in Business Admin & Management, and if it was my business,- I wouldn't have ignorant people working for me & my dear and beloved customers. It is the manager's falt most of the time. If the general manager is not very bright, it's because there is another one like him who put the other there in the first place & supervises him/her. And there are means that should always work. Loosing Money for them means Loosing their Job, so....

What do managers fear? (please, do the listed in polite maner and try to use the friendly talk with them fist, as suggested by Johnny.)

1) If you genuinely believe a law is being breached, tell them politely that you mean to take the matter to the right authorities (RSPCA or other body). Or (even better to try fist, ring to find our who the Senior Managers are and speak to them providing evidence - see below).
2) Record general managers, sales persons conversations on a dictophone. Should you face someone from Senior Management or ever a person from the authoroties you need to present evidene.
3) Research on the legal rules in your country - is what they are doing against the actual law?
4) Push the matter as hard as you can without ever loosing your cool, make it clear you won't back off untill the matter is resolved.
5) Threaten to inform/do inform social pressure groups if you need to. Comapnies will not risk having negative image.

All these tools can be used against All Managers (who may eventualy try to bribe you), but because some are actually honest people, please try to go up the corporate hierarchy with these tools first, don't threaten with legal action against that one specific general manager stight away. If you will sue, sue the company.

I am happy to support any fair trade practices, and I feel animas have basic rights for correct living conditions and businesses should be ensuring this. I know what would the dodgy, lazy kind call me. But I strongly believe that everybody can & should make a difference.

Angie

Coming from a Customer Service role, you get to learn some ways to twist what you say, to get attention, or what you want.

Use their weakness against them.
This being the fact they want to make money, even if it costs the lives of animals.

I must say that most axie tanks i see here in Oz, are terrible.
Many overcrowd, which is simply because its cheap to buy in bulk, then to buy a couple and get more once they are sold.

If you keep calm, and explain to them that you beleive they are in less then ideal conditions, im sure they would listen.
And as others have said, try and make it work for YOU. (your helping them sell better quality animals, and increasing their overall profits.)

Aaron

Big chain stores are the toughest nuts sometimes. The friendly money method does not work on them, if a critter dies, they have tons of ther high mark up value inventory. My methods work best on mom N pop type shops.

For big companies, the usual professionally written letters, e-mails and phone calls help, but again, they really could care less about one "geeks" opinion. Years back, It took some very clever creative letter writing to put some pressure on what I will refer to as Wally World, over their treatment of Betta splendens at their Chula Vista, California store. It took three months and quite a bit of writing, but finally some "VP director of pet operations" or somesuch title, actually called my house to get the information straight from me. Three days later, that store stopped selling live animals period. Turns out, this bigshot took a look at the numbers as a result of multiple complaints and found the animals were not profitable at that location. Why cvarry what doesn't sell?

(I have heard since then that has changed and things are back to the horrible conditions they were at that store. Heck, even a small victory is a win in my book. Well, that, and I like to stick it to corpoarte giants any chance I get....:grin

Aquariums should really know more about axolotls if they want to keep them and sell them.

Especally if they are going to offer false information about them to new owners.

This has been an ongoing issue yet to be resolved