Question: Newbie with Fire Salamanders... and a baby!

Hi all.
This is my first post and first amphibian pet! We have just become the very happy owners of 3 fire salamanders and are loving the new additions to our family!

When we bought them last Sunday, we were told that one of them was pregnant and had been birthing over the past week. They had removed the babies and placed them in a separate tank. We got her home and on day 2 i found 3 babies born on land under their bark hides. We added them to the water but sadly 2 of them were already dead. the third seems to be doing well though and has been placed in a container with pond water and some baby brine shrimp. He seems to be doing ok... touch wood.

I guess i would like to know if we are doing the right thing for the baby and also why she might have not gone to water dish to birth? Could it be the stress of the move? We have left her be and not bothered her for the past few days and she has not produced any more babies yet. She is still very fat though.

Any advice would be very much appreciated!

Thanks,
Pip xx

Welcome to the forum! :happy:

It seems to me like you are doing fine with the larvae. You might be right, she might be dropping them on land because of stress. It will take them a while to adjust to their new home.
I would love to see pictures if you can post them

In case you haven't seen it, here is a great care sheet. Caudata Culture Species Entry - Salamandra salamandra - Fire Salamander -Seth

Thank you for the reply Seth!
Great to know that we are doing ok and not missing anything vital. Baby still seems to be ok. I think he has grown a bit too.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129306031@N08/15820491570/

Mum is still looking very big but no more babies yet..... do you think we are likely to see more? Does she stay large for a while after all the young have been born?

Thanks for your help xx

Serenity77 said:

Thank you for the reply Seth!
Great to know that we are doing ok and not missing anything vital. Baby still seems to be ok. I think he has grown a bit too.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129306031@N08/15820491570/

Mum is still looking very big but no more babies yet..... do you think we are likely to see more? Does she stay large for a while after all the young have been born?

Thanks for your help xx

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Good to hear the larvae is doing fine. Keep adding those brine shrimp, but make sure you clean all the uneaten ones out as dead ones foul the water quickly.
I can't give you a for sure answer on weather she will drop any more larvae. She will probably stay large for a bit yes, as long as she keeps eating.
By the way, those are some beautiful Fire salamanders. They look like they are the subspecies Salamandra salamandra terrestris. -Seth

Thanks Seth!
I have taken some more pond water and will transfer baby once the temperature has reached room temp. The brine shrimp are actually baby ones and like specks so too small to clear up or even really see. I am hoping that baby is finding them. I assume the fact he has grown a bit and is alive still must mean that he has found them. I wasn't sure how large the food can be at this stage for him to eat?
Would you v any thoughts on this?
I really appreciate all your replies and advice.
Mum is still not producing any more so i think maybe she is done and just has that post preg podge lol! I never see her or the others eat but the crickets I put in do vanish so i assume that means they are being eaten. I was thinking of adding some meal worms to their diet this week.

another random thought.... can i get other co,our variations from black and yellow salamanders? I have noticed some orangey versions in pictures and wonder if they are of this subspecies or are another? Would the orange colour only come if they had parents of the same colouring? Sorry for all the questions xx

Don't worry about the questions The thing is, the Salamandra genus has loads of species/ subspecies. One of the most commonly available is Salamandra salamandra terrestris ,which it looks like you have, within this species there are a few different 'morphs'. For example 'Red Solling' or 'Orange Solling' which, as the name suggests, describes the colour of the individual. To answer your question- It is unlikely the offspring will be orange, buuuuut, if you feed them food items with low carotene (Such as micro/grindal worms) your animals will be more of a pale yellow, if you feed things that have a higher carotene value (Such as Daphnia or scuds) will give more vibrant colours, so potentially you could get offspring that are yellow but a different 'shade' of yellow to what some pictures may show. This might be a bit of a mouthful, sorry

I wasn't sure how large the food can be at this stage for him to eat?
Would you v any thoughts on this?

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Brine shrimp and daphnia are good food options for that size.

Thanks Seth. i will stick with these for now then. is tropical flaked fish food any good at all? just wondering about non live options.

Thanks Jake.
I did think that might be the case. Love the idea of slight colour variations due to food though!
Another random thought. If i was to get a bigger set up at some point, would it be possible to mix other sub species of Fire Salamander.... or is that a big no no? I am just assuming they all have the same requirements but not sure if they would "Get along"?
This is just my brain doing random thinking on a Saturday night! xx

Serenity77 said:

Thanks Seth. i will stick with these for now then. is tropical flaked fish food any good at all? just wondering about non live options.

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The only non-live foods that I could see being fed are frozen bloodworms, smashed newt/salamander pellets, and maybe frozen brine shrimp but I haven't tried them myself, and maybe some other frozen type of food.

Another random thought. If i was to get a bigger set up at some point, would it be possible to mix other sub species of Fire Salamander.... or is that a big no no? I am just assuming they all have the same requirements but not sure if they would "Get along"?
This is just my brain doing random thinking on a Saturday night! xx

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I would just buy another enclosure to keep a different subspecies in. Yes, they are probably compatible care wise, and would probably get along, but it is possible that the two subspecies could breed with each other, resulting in a hybrid which I would not recommend. It is best to just keep amphibians pure bred in my opinion.

Just to add on to what Seth said, some species of Fire Sals do have different care requirements. They are different because the live at different altitudes, therefore different temperatures and things like that. Also, it's great to see another UK member who doesn't just keep axolotls!

lol Jake. I take it Axolotls are the most common are they?
I have a Bearded Dragon so the amphibian side of exotic pets is new to me. I think it will be easier though. I also look after the local school tortoises a lot so I am used to something a bit more unusual in the house. Loving the new aspect that the Salamanders have brought. We nearly came home with a horned frog but we were told they do not like to be handled and don't do much.....

Seth.... can i ask why hybrids are not a good idea? Just curious. Thanks for the info. If we expand then we will yse different enclosures. We found 2 more dead babies in the mud last night as well. so she is still not doing it where she should :-( I have placed some cork wood over the food bowl so that it is more enclosed. maybe she will feel less exposed? How long can they continue to birth for?

xx

lol Jake. I take it Axolotls are the most common are they?

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Among this community, yes. The number of axolotl related threads you see can be a bit overwhelming, thankfully there are plenty of other axie lovers to answer the constant stream of questions.

We nearly came home with a horned frog but we were told they do not like to be handled and don't do much.....

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All amphibians should be handled as little as possible, the oils in our skin can harm them. Plus it usually just stresses them.

Seth.... can i ask why hybrids are not a good idea? Just curious.

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I suppose it is a matter of opinion. I like purebreds, and when hybrids are introduced into the hobby they could potentially be more attractive to hobbyists, resulting in the purebreds having less demand and therefore being less common thus becoming harder to obtain CB individuals. So, it is really a matter of opinion...in my opinion

How long can they continue to birth for?

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Unfortunately I don't have the answer to that question.

That does make sense with regards to hybrids. You only have to see the fads that go around with dog mixes. labradoodals and the like!

Just checked again this evening and she had 2 live babies on her leg and again not in the pool.... grrr. I managed to save these ones thankfully and they are now in the tub with Squidley. They seem to be bigger than him though? would this mean he is not growing as he should? which means i might be doing something wrong? Or maybe it is just that they have been inside her longer and therefore fattened up a bit more? Have you any thoughts on this at all please?

I really do appreciate you all guiding me through this new experience!! Thanks xx

This is a pic of squidly and the larger darker ones are the ones that i saved today. He does look much smaller? :-/

The main issue with creating hybrids is that unless an absolutely flawless record of each individual is kept, who they are sold to, what are they bred to, etc, it's just a matter of time before hybrid animals are being produced and nobody even knows it, which means that bloodlines are being contaminated with no control whatsoever.
The best strategy to prevent these problems is to maintain consistent bloodlines where only animals of the same subspecies are bred together, and even better, only animals of known locality and origin, but that only happens with particular populations that are interesting, otherwise people don't pay attention to that, which is a real pitty.

Other than some subspecies having different requirements due to existing at different altitudes, some subspecies also inhabit calcium rich environments which makes them highly susceptible to calcium deficiencies in captivity. And even if the requirements were identical, S.salamandra can be somewhat territorial and keeping a mixed group could increase territorialism.

Mixing is something that is done purely out of capriciousness, it never results in any benefits for the animals, but it always implies a set of certain risks. It's far more responsible to avoid those unnecessary risks than to put the animals in danger to satisfy a silly whim.

Just checked again this evening and she had 2 live babies on her leg and again not in the pool.... grrr. I managed to save these ones thankfully and they are now in the tub with Squidley. They seem to be bigger than him though? would this mean he is not growing as he should? which means i might be doing something wrong? Or maybe it is just that they have been inside her longer and therefore fattened up a bit more? Have you any thoughts on this at all please?

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Sorry to hear she still isn't laying in the water bowl.
They only look slightly bigger, which I suppose could be because they weren't born as soon like you say. I wouldn't worry about it.