Question: Cycle crash

Hi everyone, you may have seen my post about my cloudy tank water. Well I figured out it was from leaving food on the bottom of the tank, and to make it worse I washed out all the gravel and decorations! I know it was stupid, but I am still trying to figure this out. I went from never caring for any fish to owning an axolotl! Anyways, I need to recycle my tank and I got some rosy red minnow to cycle the tank and am keeping my axolotl in a home depot bucket with daily water changes. But I dont think he can be kept in such a small space for weeks on end. What should I do! Keep him in the bucket? Can he be kept in something like that!

Get rid of the fish and get some pure ammonia to cycle the tank. It's a lot faster. If you want to do fish-in cycling you might as well do axolotl-in cycling so the axie doesn't need to stay in a small bucket.

How much faster is it? To be honest I don't care if the fish die(If they don't have diseases my axie will eat them anyway) so I really don't want to put my axie in if there is a risk. That is why I am using hardy fish. I am using seachem stability, it has helped a lot before and it is safe for my axie, so that should speed the process up. SO is there a definite difference in the speed from using pure ammonia? And how long can my axie be in a 5 gal bucket, I am worried about him! I know it is way to small for an almost full grown axie. Thank you so much for your answer.

You don't care if the fish die ? That's a poor attitude to animal welfare. A fishless cycle works fine and doesn't kill/harm living creatures. The axolotl will be ok in 5 galls as long as you do daily water changes and keep it cool, low water volumes can fluctuate a lot so try to keep the temp constant.

I have to say it is very saddening to read that you do not care for the welfare of the fish you are planning to use for cycling your tank.

I hope you reconsider your choice to use fish to cycle your tank. Fishless cycling works well and does not expose living animals to dangerous levels of ammonia or nitrite. Here is a link on fishless cycling.

The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling - Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community

I personally don't see a big moral difference between using the fish to cycle a tank vs. feeding them to an axie; it's always technically needless killing to sacrifice an animal to keep another as a pet for our amusement. I fed my cat chicken and my dogs lamb today, and I'm sure those animals didn't want to die. To torture them would be cruel, but incidental suffering in the maintenance of a carnivore pet is unavoidable. If you could ask the fish if they'd rather be eaten today or live in water with 2 ppm ammonia for three weeks first, I suspect they would choose the latter. It sounds like she's making an effort to keep the fish alive anyway and was just being glib to emphasize that the axolotl is her top priority.

ChristineB said:

I personally don't see a big moral difference between using the fish to cycle a tank vs. feeding them to an axie; it's always technically needless killing to sacrifice an animal to keep another as a pet for our amusement. I fed my cat chicken and my dogs lamb today, and I'm sure those animals didn't want to die. To torture them would be cruel, but incidental suffering in the maintenance of a carnivore pet is unavoidable. If you could ask the fish if they'd rather be eaten today or live in water with 2 ppm ammonia for three weeks first, I suspect they would choose the latter. It sounds like she's making an effort to keep the fish alive anyway and was just being glib to emphasize that the axolotl is her top priority.

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I disagree. There is a difference. Feeding meat based food to a carnivorous animal is necessary for meeting their nutritional requirements whether this be through commercial pet food or raw diet etc. You cannot force a carnivorous animal to become a herbivore. Using fish to cycle a tank however, is unecessary and the purpose of it can be achieved without potentially causing harm to a living animal. Also, I would consider being eaten a more humane way to die than the slow, potentially painful death that may result from ammonia or nitrite toxicity.

It is good the OP is looking out for the welfare of her axolotl. But it doesn't have to come at the cost of the welfare of fish when there is an effective, easy and quicker way to cycle the tank that doesn't involve exposing a living animal to harmful levels of ammonia and nitrite.

I see your point. I do care about fish, but when my tank is cycled, it the fish are not sick, they will be fed to my axie. I love animals though and could be called obsessed with them, that doesn't mean that I am not eating meat or feeding my axie meat. Thank you Christine. Trust me, If i didn't care about animals I would not be obsessing over my axie. In fact everyone I know is sick of hearing me talk about animals I honestly didn't think cycling was cruel if they will be eaten anyway by my axie. If you all really think that it is very mean then I will certainly reconsider. I went to a privately owned pet store. Trust me, I know the stigma of pet store advice, but for this guy this store was his life. He devotes his time to the animals in the store and his staff are great. Every piece of advice he gave me has made perfect sense and when I looked it up, some of the top fish websites said the same thing. Like I said, I went from owning no fish to an axolotl, I have done lots of research, but that doesn't make up for years of inexperience. We all have to start sometime. I really was listening to his advice and not trying to hurt animals. The fish seem very happy and I don't want to put them through painful deaths. I actually didn't know how a cycle actually worked until a few days ago. Like I said, I love animals, and seriously obsess over them, wether it is my axie or baby birds outside. I will reconsider after I test my ammonia levels and see if they are too high. Right now though, the fish are very happy and are eating and swimming great. If my axie wasn't going to eat the fish there is a VERY small chance I would ever buy the fish. I agree with you too Skudo09 I do not want to hurt the fish and if the toxicity levels are too high I will figure something out. Thank You again for your answers.

One more thing. I spoke too soon when I wrote that post. I should have read through my post a bit more, trust me it would have sounded better. A lot was going on that night and I didn't take a good amount of time to read what I wrote. After reading it, even I cringed a bit. That was not the way I meant to say what I was thinking. You are right Christine, I was being a bit glib. Sorry If I offended any of you.

Sorry, I am sure you are not a cruel person and you clearly care about your axolotl . Permanent damage can be caused to the fish if exposed to toxic levels of ammonia and nitrite. You would need to do frequent water changes to ensure they are not being negatively affected. Regardless of whether they would or would get eaten after the tank is cycled, it is still good to protect their welfare whilst they are alive. As long as you are diligent in water changes and monitoring the levels closely and not allowing them to get too high, it can be possible to cycle the tank without causing harm to fish/aquatic life. As you would need to do frequent water changes, you may as well have the axolotl in the tank whilst cycling though. With the frequent water changes and having to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels very low it would be easier and quicker to do a fishless cycle and will also ensure no harm is done to the fish or axolotl if the levels did become dangerously high. Give the link I gave a read.

Yes it does sound better to do a fishless cycle. I have already done a ridiculous amount of water changes and REALLY dont want to do more. I can easily change water once a week, but two or three times is WAY too much. I will check my ammonia tonight and formulate a plan. I will also give that link a look. Thank you for your answer.

Woah! I just looked at that page. I didnt realize the fish could be hurt so bad. I will monitor my ammonia and nitrite. I figured that this was the way people did it traditionally so why not, and that is what the pet store guy told me too. Although If you saw him you would know he is a bit old fashioned in some things. Fishless cycling seems like a better option. P:S Skudo09. I love your quote

One question for you guys. After being in the bucket my axie wont eat, it has been a few days and he seems depressed (If that happens) And very skinny. Do any of you know if it is because of the bucket. I am worried about him, he is shedding his slime coat, not eating pellets, and very sad. If any of you know why I would really appreciate it.

Are you doing 100% water changes daily in the bucket? It may be easier to have a second bucket prepared to transfer him to daily so it is not too stressful and you have one at the same temperature. Maybe test the water in case there may be ammonia in the tap water supply?

Yes 100% Every day. If I cant get him home soon I will get a ten gallon, and maybe I can switch those.

Test the water and check to see if the tap water has ammonia. Hopefully not but would be good to rule it out. You could offer a black tea bath to soothe the skin. The link below has a guide on how to do this.

Caudata Culture Articles - Illness Part 2

How is he doing?

Sorry I didnt reply. He is doing better and in his tank but I may have to give him away because he is just too much work right now. Hopefully everything will work out

Glad to hear he is doing better thanks for the update.