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Question: Fire belly newt and a couple of questions :S

Lazmarr

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First off, sorry if this is in the wrong section I had a couple of things to ask so wasn't quite sure where to put it.
So I have a fire belly newt and have just put together an enclosure for him/her, it isn't quite finished yet, I have to build it up on the right so it a little taller and there's more land to use and have to wait for the sediment to settle a bit first.
Do you think it looks alright and are there any improvements to be made?
Are the java fern alright to be partially submerged as they are?
I only have the one newt and am wondering if it's ok to add some more in? As it seems lonely on its own :(
Pictures below;
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Doomus

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Firebellys are mostly aquatic so the land is wasted space all they need is a small turtle dock or floating cork bark if they ever wanted out of the water. Water level need to be way deeper fill the tank at least three quarters full and they need lots of plants to hang out in


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Chinadog

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I agree, the more plants the better. Pet store fire bellies are often highly stressed and very fragile by the time they are sold, so their tank needs to be pretty much perfect to help them recover and adapt to captivity.
The Java fern is a good start, so I would maybe add some fast growing stuff like Elodea or any of the pondweed looking plants that petstores often have, the more plants there is, the happier your newt will be, my fire bellies tank is really choked with plants, but they like it that way so I leave 'em to it!
Its important that you keep an eye on water quality and do small partial water changes for the first few weeks until the tank cycles, so you really need water test kits for ammonia and nitrite. You should find them at any decent petstore.
Here's the care sheet for Chinese fire bellies if you haven't found it already. :)

Caudata Culture Species Entry - Cynops orientalis - Chinese firebelly
 

Lazmarr

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Firebellys are mostly aquatic so the land is wasted space all they need is a small turtle dock or floating cork bark if they ever wanted out of the water. Water level need to be way deeper fill the tank at least three quarters full and they need lots of plants to hang out in
I agree, the more plants the better. Pet store fire bellies are often highly stressed and very fragile by the time they are sold, so their tank needs to be pretty much perfect to help them recover and adapt to captivity.
The Java fern is a good start, so I would maybe add some fast growing stuff like Elodea or any of the pondweed looking plants that petstores often have, the more plants there is, the happier your newt will be, my fire bellies tank is really choked with plants, but they like it that way so I leave 'em to it!
Its important that you keep an eye on water quality and do small partial water changes for the first few weeks until the tank cycles, so you really need water test kits for ammonia and nitrite. You should find them at any decent petstore.
Here's the care sheet for Chinese fire bellies if you haven't found it already. :)

Caudata Culture Species Entry - Cynops orientalis - Chinese firebelly

Thank you both for your replies, I've made some changes and added in some raised areas and some floating cork :)
I've got another plant to add and will get some more soon enough.
I haven't tested the water yet but will do soon after the sediment settles. What do you think of it now? Any improvements that I could make?
It should be Ok to just add in 2 or 3 more newts so he has a few friends right? (The pet store can order in a couple for me).
I'm not entirely sure if he's a Chinese or a Japanese fire belly newt, if you could identify which he is I would be grateful :)

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SnotOtter

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I personally would get a top or rim on that aquarium if you dont already. Sticky newts can climb glass pretty well. Dont want to end up finding a poor piece of dried newt jerky on your floor. Not judging, just didnt see one in the pics.

I'll leave the husbandry info to the more experienced cynops gurus.

Good luck!

P.S. That piece of holey rock and shells are pretty, but will crank up your water hardness(kh and Ggh) and ph(about 8.5). Not sure if thats ideal for cynops, always kept mine on the soft side.
 

Doomus

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Tank looks a lot better than before....more plants...some good ones if you can find them are floating anubis and hornwort and I don't see a filter for the tank a small internal filter with a spray bar attachment is good cause the little guys don't like a lot of water current.


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Lazmarr

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I personally would get a top or rim on that aquarium if you dont already. Sticky newts can climb glass pretty well. Dont want to end up finding a poor piece of dried newt jerky on your floor. Not judging, just didnt see one in the pics.

I'll leave the husbandry info to the more experienced cynops gurus.

Good luck!

P.S. That piece of holey rock and shells are pretty, but will crank up your water hardness(kh and Ggh) and ph(about 8.5). Not sure if thats ideal for cynops, always kept mine on the soft side.
Yeah I have a lid for it, going to get some mesh or something to stop him getting out :)
The holey rock I was told was alright to put in with the newt :S I will keep an eye out for the water hardness and pH and if they increase too much I'll remove the shells and check again :)

Tank looks a lot better than before....more plants...some good ones if you can find them are floating anubis and hornwort and I don't see a filter for the tank a small internal filter with a spray bar attachment is good cause the little guys don't like a lot of water current.
I was told by two pet store owners that a filter shouldn't really be nessasary with all the plants I should be putting in :S i have seen some anubias and will be getting some as well as the hornwort :)

What kind of light would you recommend? There is a light fixture on the lid of the tank but it is the florescent kind, would one of those or LED be more appropriate?
 

SnotOtter

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Yeah I have a lid for it, going to get some mesh or something to stop him getting out :)

Awesome, just checking. Its a commonly overlooked detail.


I was told by two pet store owners that a filter shouldn't really be nessasary with all the plants I should be putting in :S i have seen some anubias and will be getting some as well as the hornwort :)

You may not need filtration but some sort of water flow to break the surface tension and allow for gas exchange. Even if its just an air stone.

What kind of light would you recommend? There is a light fixture on the lid of the tank but it is the florescent kind, would one of those or LED be more appropriate?

Fluorescents are fine in terms of light quality but do produce more heat and need their bulbs changed yearly. LEDs last alot longer, are cooler and have a longer life and spectrum stability. Fluoro's change spectrum in 6-18 months depending on size,heat, burn time ect. The bulb itself wont burn out but wont be the spectrum you want long term, especially for plants.

Getting and giving advice is always tricky. Whats good enough for survial or optimal is a broad spectrum and we all have different opinions on how far that should go. I personally run overspills and sumps on all my closed system aquatics whether its plants, inverts, fish or amphibs. Is that absolutely necessary, probably not for most of my systems. Is it neurotic, maybe a little. I like to get as close to natural conditions as possible and that includes all water parameters. Everyone finds their balance by success and happy critters, we all get there by different roads.
 

Chinadog

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Well firstly he is certainly a Chinese firebelly. Japanese firebellies are much more expensive to for the importers to acquire, so they almost never show up in the pet trade. I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but I would urge you to reconsider before buying more from the pet store. All asian newts that are sold in petstores are wild caught and shipped all over the world in awful conditions. By the time they reach their final owner they are highly stressed and very often too far gone to save. I'm afraid the one you have there is no exception, its very thin and probably hasn't eaten since it left China. Healthy captive bred ones are often available in the for sale section of the forum, you just need a little patients until they are available.
This link is quite old but still very relevant today, unfortunately.

Caudata.org People: Jen - The Pet Shop Firebelly Newt Tragedy

As far as the tank goes, All they need to be happy is clean cold water that's stuffed with plants, really rammed full to begin with so there seems to be more plants than water. You should be aiming for a dense mat of leaves and stems on the surface so the newt can almost walk on them. The plants are needed to begin with as these kinds of aquatic newts have often gone into a terrestrial faze as a reaction to the foul conditions they are kept in during importation and have lost their tail fins, this means that they could actually drown. They will often refuse to enter deep open water unless there are loads of plants to hang on to. Once the newt recovers it will regrow its tail fin and be quite safe in deep water, but firebellies are dependent on heavy plant growth to be happy so there should always be plenty of greenery for them to hang out in.

If I were you I would remove the rocks and all the substrate to begin with as it just traps dirt and makes cleaning a nightmare while the tank is cycling. Just ram the plants in. The type of plants aren't really important, as I said before the cheap pondweed bunches that petstores carry are fine, just remove the lead weights and let them grow across the surface.
Given enough plants the filter isn't needed, Chinese firebellies hate water movement of any kind, so a still tank is best to begin with. Once the newt recovers you can remove some of the plants and add rocks if you want, but things like that means there's less water volume in the tank, so are kind of a waste of space really.

Led lights are excellent for newt tanks because they run much cooler than fluorescent tubes, I use Beamswork or Marineland ones, but I used fluorescent ones for years without problems. I just cut some slots in the hoods I was using to allow the heat, but not the newts to escape.

This thread has most of the info you need so have a good read and use the search function, there is years and years of info to go at but don't be afraid to ask questions, if there'a anything at all you are unsure about. :)

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...-new-chinese-fire-belly-newts-not-eating.html
 
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Lazmarr

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Thank you both again :) As for the newt, the picture was actually taken last year. The pet store, well exotics and amphibians store, in which I bought it from only sell captive bred animals :S
I shall definitely be getting some more plants, since they're relitively inexpensive and use ceramic weights instead of metal ones :) , and I will take a look into the air stone.
Again, thank you very much for the advice and assistance and I shall keep you posted on any developments (he seems to be rather happy in his new home :D)
 

Chinadog

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The exotics store is either miss-informed or just plain lying. The newt you have there is a mature adult and at least three or four years old. It just isn't possible to house and feed these newts to maturity over that amount of time and sell them for ten or twenty bucks or whatever and make any profit. They would be selling them at a massive loss. Think about it.
Its often the importers or wholesalers that tell petstores/herp shops that these kinds of newts and other amphibians are "captive farmed" or captive bred to ease their conscience about stocking them, it just isn't true, sure, some amphibians are captive bred in huge numbers and its easy to find pictures of the babies online, but due to their long life and slowness to reach a size that petstores will buy these magical Asian newt farms just don't exist.
 

Lazmarr

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The exotics store is either miss-informed or just plain lying. The newt you have there is a mature adult and at least three or four years old. It just isn't possible to house and feed these newts to maturity over that amount of time and sell them for ten or twenty bucks or whatever and make any profit. They would be selling them at a massive loss. Think about it.
Its often the importers or wholesalers that tell petstores/herp shops that these kinds of newts and other amphibians are "captive farmed" or captive bred to ease their conscience about stocking them, it just isn't true, sure, some amphibians are captive bred in huge numbers and its easy to find pictures of the babies online, but due to their long life and slowness to reach a size that petstores will buy these magical Asian newt farms just don't exist.
Whoops, sorry I made a grammatical error in the sentence I was trying to say and it came out wrong :uhoh:
I had meant for it to say/mean "the pet store in which I would buy it from..." the newt I actually have is an adopted one from a friend of mine; she's had him for a few years now :)
If that's the case then I shall keep a look around for ones on sale on here and there is a reptile store nearby me, well not exactly nearby XD, not really a store either they're specialists or something that breeds themselves all sorts of things so I might ask there :S
I had a look at some of the stories and it really is quite horrendous how they're treated on their way here :(

Now a picture of a happy newt :D His/her name is imary by the way :)
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    with axolotls would I basically have to keep buying and buying new axolotls to prevent inbred breeding which costs a lot of money??
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    Would Chinese fire belly newts be more or less inclined towards an aquatic eft set up versus Japanese . I'm raising them and have abandoned the terrarium at about 5 months old and switched to the aquatic setups you describe. I'm wondering if I could do this as soon as they morph?
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