Embry not eating - egg bound?

Hello fellow axxie lovers!

Sorry I've been on hiatus for a while, but I've been busy finishing a Uni course, with work and with my new axxie Pig (short for 'Kermit the Pig.') Pig is actually one of my own babies from a year ago, but the owner couldn't take care of him, so I now have him back. This means I now have five axxies, and I've officially reached the 'axxie limit' - so I can't have any more - which is a shame because there are some beautiful Mels available in our LFS at the moment.

Anyway, back to my reason for posting.

Some of you might remember Embry, my Wildtype. She is the female I had that surprised me with eggs a year ago (one of which was Pig). She used to be the biggest, fattest axolotl of all of them.

Now she's worrying me.

She hasn't eaten (that I've seen anyway) for about three weeks. She's lost a significant amount of weight and her stomach is currently indented inwards. I've tried everything - different foods, lots of water changes, cooling the water. Currently, her water stands at 23 degrees, which is not ideal - unfortunately, her tank is in my room and is prone to temperature changes, although it usually sits at 23 degrees. I've tried frozen water bottles and fans, but my fan recently stopped working and began to sound dangerous, so I removed it.

I think the cause may be temperature and I think I may need to consider a Cooler. The tank is usually on the warm side and the only way to keep it consistently cool is either a Cooler or constant water changes. Weirdly, Pig's tank sits at 20 degrees, even though it is in the same room.

On reading Linda Atkins' 'Keeping Axolotls,' she suggests that females who suddenly stop eating, float and act lethargic may be 'egg bound,' which I think means that the female is so full of unfertilised eggs that she feels uncomfortable. Her suggestion is to include a male - she has two other males and a female in the tank with her, so I'm not sure how best to proceed.

I am also considering a vet but the nearest exotic is in Exeter, which is about three hours' drive away.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Do you think it is the temperature too? Where is the cheapest place I can get a cooler (I can get an external via my father)?

I will remove her from the tank for now and put her in her own tub. Hopefully this will help.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry your Axie is not feeling great, indented! that sounds very strange.. upload some close up pictures that may help with a diagnosis.

The temperature is on the warm side since anything above 24 degrees is stressful and could cause disease. Post pictures of your tank so we can suggest some ways to cool the water. Is this tank with the higher temp smaller than the other one? You could try making your room cooler by leaving a window open, that's what I do!

Thanks Axolotl Wrangler!

The tank is a 4 foot, 30 gallon tank (I know 30 gallons doesn't seem like a lot; it's long rather than tall). The cooler tank (Pig's) is about 10 gallons and in the corner, so it's much, much smaller. I think it might be because the four footer is against one of the horizontal walls and therefore probably gets most of the warmth from televisions, consoles and lights. Unfortunately, it's too long to put against one of the other walls.

Embry's belly looks indented because she hasn't eaten, like it's going slightly inwards. I'll try and put some photos up.

PS My window is wide open all the time; my room is one of the most freezing in the entire house. I have a feeling it has poor circulation, however, because I'm getting damp coming through around the window and the wall surrounding it, even though I have treated it with damp treatment and painted over it with anti-damp paint countless times.

Hmmm.. perhaps that wall is the issue then, maybe try not having the tank flush against it.
Living in England too I know how cold your room feels when you've got the window open all day!

Yes upload pictures ASAP, its the best way to help diagnose the issue. When Axolotls are not eating and loosing weight you can see they're body slowing decreasing in width in comparison to their head (a healthy Axolotls body should be as wide as its head). Is this the case with yours??

The wall with the window being damp shouldn't affect your tank, you wont fix the damp with damp paint, you'd need to source how the moisture is getting through the wall and have it fixed (more than likely by a builder, perhaps your window frame is letting the moisture in), the paint will just layer over it.

I leave my window and bedroom door open to create ventilation.

Thanks for your help. I've moved Embry into a much colder tub underneath the tank, in a dark cupboard. I have tea cooling to put into her tub for a tea bath. I will try to get photos ASAP, but I have work and a youth group first.

Hopefully Embry's 'holiday' will do her good, but she is very lethargic (she let me take her out of the tank to move her with pretty much no resistance). I'm just worried because the tub is extremely cold and I worried that I may have shocked her, but I don't have a single suitable tub in the house to float her in with (all the pans in the house have been exposed to chemicals, and any others are too small). She looks restful now, and I was checking her body and it is slimmer than her head, for the first time in her life. I feel like I have done the right thing, but I'm still worried about her future.

My brother is a roofer and has suggested that the problem was a gap above the window, which was filled. I've no idea what else it could be, so I'll have to consult with a professional. The tank isn't quite flush with the wall - there is a small gap - but unfortunately I can't fit it anywhere else.

The best way is to use a transparent bag used for transporting fish, add your a Axolotl with her tank water, tie the top of the bag off then place into the new tub of cold water to acclimatise. You can also acclimatise by starting with keeping her in the new tub with the original tank water, and then gradually add more and more cold water over 30 mins or so, then just pour all the water out and fill with cold water again so its 100% fresh.

What tea are you using? She probably doesn't need a tea bath as she doesn't have any fungus or skin issues.

Post pictures asap!

Thank you for your continued advice, AxolotlChris.

I think this morning I just panicked and reacted poorly. I felt like if I did nothing, she would sicken and die, and so rushed it. Normally I would have acclimatised her (and now I am kicking myself for not doing so). I will definitely be more calm in the future.

I have tested the parameters and they are normal for that tank (Amm 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5ppm and PH 7.4). You can see a shot of her regular tank in the photos.

You can also see her from the side and above (sorry for the poor quality - she is in a grey tub so I can't show you her from the side very well). Looking at her again, she actually doesn't look that thin. But how can she not be, if she hasn't eaten for three weeks?

I added tea in case of a bacterial infection and to soothe her slime coat. I've also found that tea can also have the effect of calming them, and, in some cases, can promote the easing of constipation (although this may just be the effect of the cooler water in the hospital tub). Do you use tea baths for fungus? I've always been told not to use tea baths for them, as they prevent salt from getting to the fungus (as the tea tightens the pores). I would use them after treatment of fungus, though, to soothe the slime coat and gills, but only after I'm sure all traces of fungus are gone.

***UPDATE***

Thank you for all your help, especially Axolotl Chris. Also thank you to Beks (Snuggly Time) for sending me Indian Almond Leaves and for support.

Embry is showing interest in eating and has even snapped up a worm. She spat it back out, however, so I think she isn't quite ready for full meals yet. I may have to try cutting a worm in half, as Beks has suggested.

The method of getting her interested in food was actually Beks' idea. She mentioned that her axolotl stopped eating a while back, and that she got him to eat by ordering a new batch of worms (we both get ours from Yorkshire Worms). I ordered some new ones and got them yesterday. I don't know whether it's the soil they use or the feed, but axxies seem more interested in the worms that are fresh from the supplier rather than ones I have kept in the worm box - this might be because the worms' flavour is said to depend on what they are fed, and mine are currently being fed pumpkin and apple. Methinks Embry is not a fruit and veggie fan.

I also have a theory. Both of my females have done this now and I was worried about both of them. They suddenly stopped eating for a few weeks and lost a lot of weight - previously they were two of my fattest. My theory is this: if females have no interest in breeding, might they stop eating to reabsorb some of their eggs, since they are constantly 'carrying?' Is the hunger strike to prevent constipation and lose excess weight? I've come to call these 'Slim Fast Strikes,' since both of my females have done them, then started eating again when they have lost a lot of weight. What if this is actually fairly normal among domestic axxies? Let me know what you think. Obviously we must look for other causes and be vigilant that it isn't a sign of illness, but otherwise, I think this might be fairly common, especially given the amount of posts we see on hunger-striking axxies.

One more thing: I'm going to try an external filter as I think my two internals might be responsible for the temp hikes. Results soon!

According to vet posts on this site axolotls can not become egg bound. Gravid females will reabsorb unfertalised eggs, they dont need to breed to maintain health. Interesting theory on females going off food when they are reabsorbing eggs, cant say i have noticed but it sounds plausable.

It was originally brought to my attention by Linda Adkins, in her book 'Keeping Axolotls.' On page 59, she deals with common problems. One owner has written in about one of her female axolotls that is a 'voracious feeder, up until a certain point.' In this example, the female will stop eating around every six to nine months, for a period of around 3 weeks (all this sounds very familiar!) This axolotl 'floats near the surface' and 'shows no interest in food at all.' Ms Adkins says that the female is 'reabsorbing her eggs' and this is why she is not eating. She claims that this is 'natural, but can cause long-term problems.' As I've said above, her solution involves adding a male to fertilise the eggs. Some of her advice isn't considered the status quo any more - for example, she is a big fan of gravel in the book - but there are some pieces of information that appear to be new territory, at least for me.

I've noticed that a lot of other animals will reabsorb either eggs or foetuses if the conditions are not favourable - for example, wolves will reabsorb pups if there is not enough food (according to Shaun Ellis). Axolotls with a plentiful supply of food but no desire to breed might well reabsorb eggs as well. Given what you know about axolotls and other amphibians, Nai Live, do you think it a possibility? Do other salamanders absorb eggs if they are not needed? Have you noticed any of your girls 'hunger striking,' and did they eventually eat again?

I havent read the book but several friends say its a good source of info and one friend saw Dr Atkins axolotls and said they were in excellent condition, yes some of her care techniques may be out of vogue but the people who slate her are generally noobs with a few dead axolotls under their belt. Does Dr Atkins state where her info about long term health effects from reabsorbing eggs comes from ? Its generally considered to be a natural and harmless process, though i actually have no proof of this other than anecdotal info and what ive read online, if she cites a study that would be great. I have never noticed a female axolotl stop eating whilst reabsorbing eggs , this is because i dont hang about to watch them eat, i have up to sixty tanks, tubs and vivs to maintain so dont have the time. What i do is weekly checks on bodymass and general condition, i can see which females are reabsorbing eggs but dont monitor food intake, so they may or may not be feeding.

She does not cite any studies in the book, but I should imagine she has likely read a great deal of information and remembered the general gist of her research, not to mention her extensive experience. Her axolotls are plump with full gills and vibrant colour in her photographs. I do think we (and Dr Adkins) are onto something. Embry is very interested in food and trying hard to keep down her worms (I need to feed smaller ones). In addition, the external has lowered the temp of the tank considerably - it currently sits at 21 degrees, cooler than it has been for weeks. Externals work!

I saw Embry eat for the first time yesterday! Amazingly, it was a cockle, which she hasn't shown much interest in before. She must also be eating her worms, since I put them in and when I look again they're gone (they could well have wiggled under the caves or been eaten by another axxie, but Embry seems not to be eating her food right away and the others have been fed right before this, so I think she must be eating them).

I see many threads like this that are never concluded, so I am never sure if that axolotl ever ate again or how the owner got them to do so. I therefore am concluding this thread by saying that Embry likely stopped eating because of the warmth of her tank. Adding an external filter seemed to drop the standard temperature considerably (it hasn't gone above 23 degrees since, and that's its very warmest temp. It averages 20 - 21 degrees). Adding a new type of food seemed to help - in this case, frozen cockles which were warmed with boiling water (to seal the food and get rid of contaminants) and then cooled with colder water.

The key thing I've learned is that an owner with an axxie who isn't eating needs to be very patient, and to know when to call in a vet or ask for help. It also seems key to register how long the axxie has gone without food and monitor for any external stressors. I cannot say what prompted Embry to eat again for sure, but I feel that axolotls go through bad patches, like people do, and in these instances, ensuring optimum conditions should be the priority.