New owner (cycling help)

Hi,

I just recently got two axolotls (less than 24 hours ago) one golden albino and one leucistic. I got a 30 gallon tank just under 3 foot long for them and have gotten hides plants Sand filter etc for them and treated water with dechlorinator. Feeding them a mix of earthworms bloodworms and brine shrimp right now and I've ordered pellets for them as well.

I'm afraid to say that I had no idea of cycling beforehand and now have them in an uncycled tank which I now know is never a good thing. After some research and forum reading I understand the cycling process and I have a master testing kit ordered to test the water. Had to go with Amazon as can't find the test in shops here.

However I am wondering what to do regarding my little guys, if I were to keep them in I'm fully prepared to do daily water changes and test ammonia and was going to start changes of 50% now while I wait for my kit to arrive. Would these water changes drastically stress out my axies, should I remove them each time?

I also read people saying to take them out and fridge them until the tank is cycled changing their water 100% daily. Would they be okay being refrigerated for that long? Our fridge is small so I don't want them to be cramped for so long i live in Ireland so we dont get heatwaves much so would they be viable in separate containers unrefrigerated?

I was thinking of doing both, taking them out and feeding them and refridge for a couple hours while I change water and let it settle? Then put them back and repeat?

I have about 9 live plants in the tank which I heard can speed up the process??

I can't believe during all my research I missed out on this vital part and I'm already ready worried about my guys well being and I haven't even had them a day. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry about so many questions my head is just racing right now!!

A lot of guys will argue with me on here... I made the same mistake as a rookie and my axie is fine. But at the same time, if you are able, put them in a smaller tank with daily water changes and let the 30 gallon cycle, if you don't have just a small five gallon don't do daily water changes on the thirty gallon because that could mess up the cycle, I have never had to fridge an axolotl so you will have to get help from others on the time period they are able to be in the fridge. Hope this helped, honestly I know it's really stressful being a new owner I was in your spot a year ago but please don't worry about it


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There is a axolotl owner on here named axolotlchris and he is a genius on cycling try and get a hold of him, he will probably see this post tho


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Like Killian said, don't get stressed. You caught your mistake before it became a problem. :happy:

You can keep your axolotls in containers if you wish while you are cycling the tank, and you should not fridge them. Whether you should keep them in containers (vs cycling with them in the tank) depends on their size, the containers you have available, and if you can keep them safe in containers. If you have cats, for example, containers are not a good idea unless you can keep the cat away from the containers.

If the axies are fairly small and you have suitable safe containers, then I would recommend keeping them in containers and doing a "fishless" cycle. I also recommend you have a large container with conditioned water to do water changes on the containers (so the temperature is the same). You will probably want to change the water in the containers twice a day (unless they are huge containers.) You can google "fishless cycle", or like Killian said, Chris will be along with suitable links.

If you cycle in the tank, you will need to do frequent water changes. If your axies are small, and you are cleaning up after them properly, the ammonia will not rise too quickly. Change maybe 25% a day until you get your test kit and I think they will be more than safe. Always use a good water conditioner. (Prime is good, if you have it over there.)

I made a similar mistake with my first axies a little over a mont ago. I desperately read a million threads on this forum, and with the help of a knowledgeable pet shop employee and fellow axie owner, I made it through no problem!

First, how are they looking/acting? If they have healthy appetites and appear to have healthy gills, then no fridging is required. I had to fridge mine for 7 days because they both received ammonia burn to their gills upon entry to my 26 gallon tank and their fillaments began to fall off. Fridging for small amounts of time (hours- a couple of days) is bad bc the stress from fridging alone is hard on them and switching from room temp to cold over and over could be very damaging. Plus the point of the fridge is to slow their metabolisms and focus their energy on healing.

That being said, if they are of good health then I would either A) put them in a smaller container and do 100% water changes of that container daily until your tank cycles, making sure to condition the water they are in everyday or B) leave them in the tank and do 20% water changes every other day while treating the water with Seachem Stability daily (per bottle instructions) to promote healthy bacteria growth; and also Seachem Prime every other day during the water changes (per bottle instructions) to neutralize the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate that is present to make them less harmful.

I did plan B for two weeks after my axies were out of the fridge. The parameters to start were Ammonia 2.5 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 0. I followed those instructions given to me by a axie keeper and now, three weeks later, my parameters are perfect! It costs more and takes more daily maintenance to do the fish in cycle, but I had no other options available. I monitored my axies very closely the entire time and they remained healthy in every regard and completely recovered from the ammonia burn they got on day 1.

Good luck.... In a couple days you will be an expert in water changes and parameter testing!

Cycling without your Axolotls in the tank is the safest option.

Using your Axolotls as the Ammonia source will potentially put them in harms way.

The cycle you are performing is technically known as the 'Nitrogen Cycle'

Ammonia is produced from Axolotls waste and degrading food, since you would be better not letting your Axolotl be exposed to high levels of Ammonia to start your cycle you should remove your Axolotls and keep them in separate large containers, and then use salmon pellets, fish flakes, or pure Ammonia which can be purchased from grocery stores/hardware stores (pure ammonia is very concentrated so you would only require a few drops to create a fairly high amount of Ammonia). The start of the cycle will be where you dose your tank to about 4.0ppm of Ammonia, after some days a beneficial bacteria will begin to colonize surfaces within your tank such as filter, ornaments, plants, and substrate. This first bacteria will begin to feed on the Ammonia, converting it to Nitrite, then as the Nitrite appears another beneficial bacteria will begin to colonize your tank which will feed on the Nitrite and convert it to NitrAte. The bacteria is known as a 'biological filter', as it filters the Ammonia and Nitrite into less harmful NitrAte. NitrAte is the finial part of the cycle and does not get converted or dissipate, you must do a 20-30% water change when your NitrAte rise to 40ppm. You are basically going to be testing your tank everyday to monitor the progress of your cycle as it goes from Ammonia to Nitrite to NitrAte.

A lot of users on this forum use and recommend the Welcome to API Fishcare: FRESHWATER MASTER TEST KIT These liquid test kits are far more reliable that the test strip versions so its good you have ordered this. This test kit will enable you to test for the levels of Ammonia, Nitrite, and NitrAte.

The cycling process can take from 3-6 weeks. For your tank to be cycled, the beneficial bacteria needs to be present to break down the Ammonia and Nitrites into Nitrates. Ammonia and Nitrites are lethal to Axolotl and are produced from your Axolotls waste and decomposing food. Nitrates are a less toxic by product.

For more details on cycling read these articles:
Caudata Culture Articles - Water Quality
Caudata Culture Articles - Cycling
How to Cycle a Fish Tank

Cycling is one of the key factors of keeping your Axolotl healthy, as well as temperature.

Read these websites fully for more information on Axolotl care:
Axolotls: The Fascinating Mexican Axolotl and the Tiger Salamander
Caudata Culture Axolotl Articles

Take pictures of your tank if you want any opinions on your setup.

In the meantime, continue to read about cycling, purchase a large food container to place your Axolotl in perform 100% water changes with dechlorinated water everyday or so. If you struggle to keep the temperature of the water down to 16-18 degrees let us know.

MoniWonton said:

I made a similar mistake with my first axies a little over a mont ago. I desperately read a million threads on this forum, and with the help of a knowledgeable pet shop employee and fellow axie owner, I made it through no problem!

First, how are they looking/acting? If they have healthy appetites and appear to have healthy gills, then no fridging is required. I had to fridge mine for 7 days because they both received ammonia burn to their gills upon entry to my 26 gallon tank and their fillaments began to fall off. Fridging for small amounts of time (hours- a couple of days) is bad bc the stress from fridging alone is hard on them and switching from room temp to cold over and over could be very damaging. Plus the point of the fridge is to slow their metabolisms and focus their energy on healing.

That being said, if they are of good health then I would either A) put them in a smaller container and do 100% water changes of that container daily until your tank cycles, making sure to condition the water they are in everyday or B) leave them in the tank and do 20% water changes every other day while treating the water with Seachem Stability daily (per bottle instructions) to promote healthy bacteria growth; and also Seachem Prime every other day during the water changes (per bottle instructions) to neutralize the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate that is present to make them less harmful.

I did plan B for two weeks after my axies were out of the fridge. The parameters to start were Ammonia 2.5 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 0. I followed those instructions given to me by a axie keeper and now, three weeks later, my parameters are perfect! It costs more and takes more daily maintenance to do the fish in cycle, but I had no other options available. I monitored my axies very closely the entire time and they remained healthy in every regard and completely recovered from the ammonia burn they got on day 1.

Good luck.... In a couple days you will be an expert in water changes and parameter testing!

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They seem fine overall, gills are small but the same as they were in the pet shop no changes as of yet and appetite is good fed them worms and bloodworms last night and everything was pretty much eaten. I was a little worried about the golden albino as he wasn't moving much but I put that down to needing to settle in after the move, leucistic is much more active.

The seachem products id have to order online as they don't seem commonly available here. I'm very restricted on space here as I share an apartment with one other. Plenty of room for the tank but I'd have to take up more room with containers which I'm not sure if I can. If I order the seachem online should I do water changes daily while I wait as I mentioned I have to wait for the kit as well so I'm paranoid it'll spike and I won't know. And adding the stuff won't hurt my little guys while in the water?

@Laura they're relatively small about the average size you get the from the pet shop. What sort of containers would you recommend? As I mentioned space here is a slight issue it's a small apartment for two and I don't want to take over it as I'm renting from this person, they were reluctant about me getting these so I don't want to cause arguments.

@Killian How often did you change your water while they were in the tank?

@Chris if doing the fishless cycle I would keep all the sand and ornaments and stuff in? Once is cycled will it be a lot of cleanup? If they were in those containers a daily water change would suffice? It's all down to space here really but if those large lunchbox containers are fine it might be okay for me here. Should I still use the seachem stability mentioned?? Also them being separated for 3 weeks+ would that affect much once they are put back? They're very close at the moment they hide together nearly all the time.

Sorry I can't reply directly to all I'm on mobile at the moment, but thank you all for the replies so far!!!

If you don't want to order and wait for 'Seachem Prime' (dechlorinator), you can get 'Tetra Water Safe' from pet/aquatic stores.

I wouldn't advise on 'Seachem Stability' since this 'bottled bacteria' appears to be hit and miss, I tried using it to start my cycle and it did nothing. Just let nature take its course and as you introduce Ammonia the beneficial bacteria will begin to colonize your tank.

Yes you will keep your tank exactly as it is, only remove your Axolotls. There will be no clean up to do, the cycle you are performing is invisible, it is microscopic bacteria that is colonizing your tank, then Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrates are invisible to the human eye. This is why you have the test kit which will allow you to test your water for each reading.

If your Axolotls are small, then two larger lunch box food containers will be fine, you could keep these in your bed room on a side table. Here's an example of various sized juveniles I have in containers at the moment: http://www.caudata.org/forum/members/axolotlchris/albums/axolotl/38275-basic-setup/

Since you will have them in smaller containers than the tank it would be best to keep them separate as there could be a higher chance of one of them injuring the other by accident.

Make sure to change their water in the containers nearly everyday, 100% with dechlorinated water, try not to let the room temp get too high as this will raise the temp of the small volume of water they are kept in quite easily, I would purchase an aquarium thermometer: You ideally want the water around 16-18 degrees Celsius, but it is hard to keep the containers of water at this temperature since it is such a small volume of water, either find a cool place to keep them to maintain temperature, or perform water changes everyday to keep the temp lower.

I use a plastic syringe to suck out food and Axolotl waste constantly everyday to keep their water quality up:

Then use plastic forceps to hand feed easily:

Make it priority to read and understand the links I shared in the last post, they will ensure you give correct care for your Axolotls.

AxolotlChris said:

If you don't want to order and wait for 'Seachem Prime' (dechlorinator), you can get 'Tetra Water Safe' from pet/aquatic stores.

I wouldn't advise on 'Seachem Stability' since this 'bottled bacteria' appears to be hit and miss, I tried using it to start my cycle and it did nothing. Just let nature take its course and as you introduce Ammonia the beneficial bacteria will begin to colonize your tank.

Yes you will keep your tank exactly as it is, only remove your Axolotls. There will be no clean up to do, the cycle you are performing is invisible, it is microscopic bacteria that is colonizing your tank, then Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrates are invisible to the human eye. This is why you have the test kit which will allow you to test your water for each reading.

If your Axolotls are small, then two larger lunch box food containers will be fine, you could keep these in your bed room on a side table. Here's an example of various sized juveniles I have in containers at the moment: http://www.caudata.org/forum/members/axolotlchris/albums/axolotl/38275-basic-setup/

Since you will have them in smaller containers than the tank it would be best to keep them separate as there could be a higher chance of one of them injuring the other by accident.

Make sure to change their water in the containers nearly everyday, 100% with dechlorinated water, try not to let the room temp get too high as this will raise the temp of the small volume of water they are kept in quite easily, I would purchase an aquarium thermometer: View attachment 45783 You ideally want the water around 16-18 degrees Celsius, but it is hard to keep the containers of water at this temperature since it is such a small volume of water, either find a cool place to keep them to maintain temperature, or perform water changes everyday to keep the temp lower.

I use a plastic syringe to suck out food and Axolotl waste constantly everyday to keep their water quality up: View attachment 45784

Then use plastic forceps to hand feed easily: View attachment 45785

Make it priority to read and understand the links I shared in the last post, they will ensure you give correct care for your Axolotls.

Click to expand...

They're about 4 inches at most and skinny. Should I keep the lids off the lunchboxes or keep them on. I can keep them on my desk in bedroom as it's shaded there and I use a fan at night so the room would be cooler. I will change the water everyday to make sure it doesn't get too warm for them. Can I use a strip thermometer and put on the side of the box or should I use a dip able one like the one in your picture. I normally hand feed but should I use a tweezer from now on? I might store them in the cupboard while I'm in work is it okay to move them to my desk at night? Also changing the water fully in the box how do you do that with the axoloto in it? Should I get 4 containers and alternate them or do I drain and refill with the axolotl in it?

Lids do make it safer since if their boxes aren't particularly deep there is a chance of them leaping out, but lids increase the water temperature since they do not allow evaporation. Have you got any mesh wire you could lay over the containers? Or anything that could act in the same way? That way you have protection but allow evaporation.

Using a fan to blow on the containers would be a good way to keep the water temperature down. A thermometer like the one I posted is advised, strips are really unreliable and always break. Putting them in a cupboard may not be the best option due to temperature again. Perhaps if security is an issue just put a lock on your door?

I find tweezers are more accurate and leaves less room for contamination. But using your hands after washing thoroughly in warm water (no soap or anti bac) is fine.

I refill my containers with the Axolotl still inside, use the plastic syringe to suck out all the waste you can, then pour nearly of the water out of the container into a bucket while the Axolotl is still in the container (be careful, never pour into a sink always use a bucket for security), make sure to leave the Axolotl in just enough water to cover it in one side of the container keeping it tilted and leaning up against something making sure the container wont slip. I then use tough paper towels to wipe the slimy bio film that can build up inside the container. Then I use a jug to pour in clean dechlorinated water. I have raised all my juveniles like this, they are never stressed, and always eat straight after a fresh water change.

AxolotlChris said:

Lids do make it safer since if their boxes aren't particularly deep there is a chance of them leaping out, but lids increase the water temperature since they do not allow evaporation. Have you got any mesh wire you could lay over the containers? Or anything that could act in the same way? That way you have protection but allow evaporation.

Using a fan to blow on the containers would be a good way to keep the water temperature down. A thermometer like the one I posted is advised, strips are really unreliable and always break. Putting them in a cupboard may not be the best option due to temperature again. Perhaps if security is an issue just put a lock on your door?

I find tweezers are more accurate and leaves less room for contamination. But using your hands after washing thoroughly in warm water (no soap or anti bac) is fine.

I refill my containers with the Axolotl still inside, use the plastic syringe to suck out all the waste you can, then pour nearly of the water out of the container into a bucket while the Axolotl is still in the container (be careful, never pour into a sink always use a bucket for security), make sure to leave the Axolotl in just enough water to cover it in one side of the container keeping it tilted and leaning up against something making sure the container wont slip. I then use tough paper towels to wipe the slimy bio film that can build up inside the container. Then I use a jug to pour in clean dechlorinated water. I have raised all my juveniles like this, they are never stressed, and always eat straight after a fresh water change.

Click to expand...

By cupboard I really mean the stand for the tank it has no back on it so it's pretty aired out and I'd leave the doors open for them it's more so to keep them in a shady spot during the daytime than anything but I can always just keep them on my desk and keep the curtains closed over.

Could I cut holes into the lid to give it more air flow?? I can try find mesh for it but I'm not sure how long it'd he before I can get some.

Yes I have holes in my lids in case I ever have to use them. Sounds like your stand might be a good spot for them.

AxolotlChris said:

Yes I have holes in my lids in case I ever have to use them. Sounds like your stand might be a good spot for them.

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Great I'll put plenty of holes in the lids for them and I'll try out my stand. My desk is pretty shaded too so if cupboard isn't great I'll move them to there.

For fishless cycle is it okay to use freeze dried bloodworms and brine shrimp? I bought them by accident after I realised they're not nutritional enough for axolotls

You can use those to create Ammonia, but its hard to tell how much you need to use to create a certain PPM of Ammonia. Generally you add around 2.0ppm of Ammonia, then as this begins to be converted to Nitrite you continue you raise the PPM of Ammonia slowly which increases the amount of bacteria that colonizes your tank by providing more and more Ammonia for the bacteria to feed on until you reach around 4.0ppm, hopefully by this stage you will see full conversion of Ammonia to Nitrite then Nitrite to NitrAte. The cycle can vary in results and is not always text book. Just keep a log of your daily test results so you can monitor how your cycle is progressing

AxolotlChris said:

The start of the cycle will be where you dose your tank to about 4.0ppm of Ammonia, after some days a beneficial bacteria will begin to colonize surfaces within your tank such as filter, ornaments, plants, and substrate.

Click to expand...

Just wanted to correct a mistake above where I mentioned using 4.0ppm of Ammonia as the first dose, it is better to start lower at 2.0ppm and work your way up each time your test results show your Ammonia being converted to Nitrite and Nitrite converting to Nitrate.

AxolotlChris said:

You can use those to create Ammonia, but its hard to tell how much you need to use to create a certain PPM of Ammonia. Generally you add around 2.0ppm of Ammonia, then as this begins to be converted to Nitrite you continue you raise the PPM of Ammonia slowly which increases the amount of bacteria that colonizes your tank by providing more and more Ammonia for the bacteria to feed on until you reach around 4.0ppm, hopefully by this stage you will see full conversion of Ammonia to Nitrite then Nitrite to NitrAte. The cycle can vary in results and is not always text book. Just keep a log of your daily test results so you can monitor how your cycle is progressing

Click to expand...

Does fishless involve water changes as well? I'm seeing some results online saying change water and others saying don't while it cycles.

I can use the dried food for the start anyway and move on to other fish food as needs be.

Bit nervous bout it all but just want my guys to be okay in their containers for a few weeks while it cycles so I'm going to make sure they're as comfortable as possible.

They will be fine, just make sure the water is changed every day or so to make sure temp is okay and ammonia doesn't build up.

Water changes can be done to lower amounts of ammonia if it spikes but otherwise you could be removing needed ammonia or nitrite that could be fed on by the bacteria, and that would slow your cycle.

AxolotlChris said:

They will be fine, just make sure the water is changed every day or so to make sure temp is okay and ammonia doesn't build up.

Water changes can be done to lower amounts of ammonia if it spikes but otherwise you could be removing needed ammonia or nitrite that could be fed on by the bacteria, and that would slow your cycle.

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Would 4 and over be spike for the ammonia?
Should I start feeding the tank a little bit while I wait for the kit?

I managed to get two 9l shoe boxes for them and a wire shelf tray to sit on top so they can be aired out and I'm going to leave them on my desk with the fan on when I'm in work

Your axolotls will only produce so much waste, but to make sure your bacterial colonies can cope with the amount of ammonia and nitrite produced by your axolotls or in case some how you had an ammonia spike, its often better establishing your cycle with a higher amount of ammonia to make sure you have the necessary bacterial colonies to convert the ammonia.

4.0ppm of ammonia if you had axolotls in the tank is deadly. Your only using up to this amount of ammonia for cycling purposes to establish your bacteria. Once your cycle is complete your bacteria will always convert the ammonia when its available so you will end up with pretty consistent readings of 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and some sort of reading of NitrAte since this will be the last toxin produced from the cycle, and will need to be lowered via water changes.

Yeah you can start dosing your tank, but at the moment you cant tell how much ammonia your creating from what your adding since you cant test. But I suppose it would at least get the ball rolling.

Shoe boxes, wire tray, and the fan sound like a good idea!

AxolotlChris said:

Your axolotls will only produce so much waste, but to make sure your bacterial colonies can cope with the amount of ammonia and nitrite produced by your axolotls or in case some how you had an ammonia spike, its often better establishing your cycle with a higher amount of ammonia to make sure you have the necessary bacterial colonies to convert the ammonia.

4.0ppm of ammonia if you had axolotls in the tank is deadly. Your only using up to this amount of ammonia for cycling purposes to establish your bacteria. Once your cycle is complete your bacteria will always convert the ammonia when its available so you will end up with pretty consistent readings of 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and some sort of reading of NitrAte since this will be the last toxin produced from the cycle, and will need to be lowered via water changes.

Yeah you can start dosing your tank, but at the moment you cant tell how much ammonia your creating from what your adding since you cant test. But I suppose it would at least get the ball rolling.

Shoe boxes, wire tray, and the fan sound like a good idea!

Click to expand...

Ill start the feeding once theyre out but I'll do it sporadically as to just give it a kick start before the kit comes. Should I put anything in the containers with my little guys or will they be fine with nothing??

Pictures are the containers I got for them, they're 9 litres each and longer than they look!! I'm not sure why they're upside down but I'm on mobile so I can't change it ha!!