Questions from a possible future owner

Hello all!


Been lurking for the past two days, saw my first axolatl the other day at a friend's house. Turns out he didn't know as much as he thought about them, thankfully no gravel in the tank and the axie is pretty old and happy! He was just confused about the legality of them in VT.

Anyhow I have some questions. I have wanted to keep fish for a while and once I found out what an axolatl was I was sold. My girlfriend and I do plan to move in a year or so (definitely possibly we will stay for another two years).

Anyways my first question: Is it a bad idea to get an axolotl if I'm possibly moving in a year? Or should I only get a certain age axolotl because I'm moving soon (some hardier than others)?

My next question is in regards to keeping them as pets and living space. As luck would have it the basement of the apartment I moved into has an approximately 36.5 gallon tank in the basement. It is 3ft W X 13" H X 18" D, hopefully it will hold water, its pretty disgusting full of the rat homes of yore but looks solid. I think based on what I've seen that will work for a tank and house up to 3 adult axolatls, am I correct here?

I know about cycling and plan to do fishless cycling for however long it takes until it is cycled. I will setup my plants and arrange the tank during that time. It is best to put plants in during the beginning of the cycling, correct? Sand is an okay substrate? I figure that they will eat some but it may even act as a bit of fiber?

Earthworm farm in the garden this summer and farm in the basement during the winter. If it is appropriate as a new owner I'd prefer to raise them as young as breeders allow. Not sure of what the baby axolotls eat though?

My next question is on filters and what is best, I've seen canister, and sponge. Sponge seems much cheaper. This leads to my next question, what am I looking at cost wise for start up, if this estimate is possible? I'm looking to provide them a good home, not a cheap, bad home.

I'm sorry if some of this was asked, I'm an avid reader and have read a ton on axolotls already, but this is some of the stuff I don't know yet.


Thanks all!

I haven't personally moved axolotls. But I successfully moved angelfish across a few states on my last move, and I think axolotls would be a lot easier as long as you can keep the conditions good during the move. People do ship them via mail on a regular basis. So, as long as you think through the move and can make sure they will not get too hot, etc, a move in the future should not keep you from getting them now.

The tank in the basement - do you know if it is a fish tank or a critter tank not intended for a large amount of water? You might be able to figure out by checking the thickness of the glass compared to aquariums and non-aquariums at the local pet store.

You shouldn't keep axies on sand until they are around 5". So if you want to start off with the sand substrate, that does establish a lower bound on axolotl size for your new axolotls.

Earthworms are great food. Young axolotls will eat chopped up earth worms, blackworms, frozen bloodworms, pellets, etc. You can ask the breeder what the axie has been eating and start them off on that. Earthworms are considered an excellent staple diet.

I like both canister and sponge filters. In fact, I have both in my tanks. They both have their pluses and minuses. For example, the sponge filters take up a lot of tank room but produce a gentler flow. If I had to pick one, I would go with the sponge, since the sponge is easier to clean.

Check and see if anyone has used aquarium things in your area. (I recently found a guy with a barn full of aquarium stuff near here.) That would reduce start-up cost. I haven't priced the stuff individually. Make sure you buy new test kits and water conditioner, not "stuff from this guy's barn."

I'm glad you are researching!

The one thing you didn't mention is, how are you going to keep the tank cool?

Be sure to read these websites:

Caudata Culture Axolotl Articles
Axolotls: The Fascinating Mexican Axolotl and the Tiger Salamander

They contain answers and information relevant to your questions

Thanks for the help!

So I'm fine with not doing sand, are there any substrates that are appropriate for little axies? I'd like to be able to start all my plants growing before I introduce the axolotls. I definitely want lots of live plants. Preferably not all of the Java moss variety which is why I wanted some planted into the ground.

As for temperature control I read people use frozen dechorinated water bottles. That will probably work for me. Being in Vermont id almost be more worried about cold. During the winter we keep our home between 64F and 68F. During the summer I'm sure it could go from 70F up to 90F some days (rare).

The tank in the basement seems to have a lip going around the inside of the top, I also definitely see nice beads of sealent in the corners. The bot to is also glass which leads me to believe that its an aquarium. I'll check thickness later today, but when I checked it out I remember noticing it seemed like a pretty solid tank.

Bonus question, does adding substrate later, such as sand when they are older pose a problem for the cycle? Do I basically have to drain the tank add the sand and start cycling the tank again?

Thanks for the resources Chris! I did already read everything on your second link. The first, however, was very cool with the different suggested tank setups.

Read this thread: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1-general-topics/f1158-introductions-area/105438-hi.html#post460675 it contains some information that may help.

Only issue I see with moving is depending on how long it takes to move to the new location and get your tank set up again you will probably have to start your cycle all over again since the bacterial colony's in your tank will most likely die off, unless you manage to transport ornaments, plants and filter in tank water and within a few hours, that way you could seed your tank when cycling/setting up.

Once you get an idea of what temperature your tank water will generally settle at you can look at ways to keep it cool, frozen water bottles are not a very consistent method of cooling as they can cause temp fluctuations and you have to replace them constantly. Chillers are ideal if you need one. Caudata Culture Articles - Cooling

You can use sand if you buy Axolotls over 4/5", and use a feeding plate to reduce any intake of sand. You could probably find Axolotls around 5-6" so you can still get younger Axoltols but setup with sand and plants.

Adding sand to a tank later poses some issues, it will most likely cloud the water for awhile, clog your filter if you don't turn it off. Perhaps you should just buy the larger Axolotls and then you can go straight for sand and plants. If there is virtually no light your plants will struggle to grow and probably die without lights.

Axolotl Sanctuary

Ideally I'd love to raise some 3" axolotls. I know I found somewhere another substrate that almost looked like moss you stick to the bottom of the tank. Would something like that be safe for the young ones? Or something like that which plants can grow in? I checked out your linked thread and saw some awesome substrate ideas.

I really like the river rock but am afraid of how dirty it may get in the tank.

As for a chiller I definitely knew that was an option, not sure if I will need it but I will definitely do my research. I never keep pets unless I'm 100% sure I can provide a safe and comfortable environment.

My next question is this, is it possible to cycle the tank with the plants and then just keep adding ammonia regularly to keep the plants growing alone and keep the cycle up?

I do plan on adding some cherry shrimp after completing the cycle and before adding the axolotl. Hopefully to get them breeding a keep some small source of "treat food," but also for fun, cause shrimp are cool! My next question would be do cherry shrimp pose any danger to a juvenile axolotl?

Also its a 36 gallon tank, but only 3 ft long. It is pretty deep which is why it is 36 gallons. Does this mean I should only keep 2 axies, I've seen 10 gallons per adult axie and I've seen 1 foot per axie as well. Also would Cherry Shrimp affect that number as well? I know they will probably all be eaten at some point.

Thanks so much for your answers. I love collecting info on the stuff I'm interested in so I'm always chock full of questions.

The really easy, more liberal rule is 10 gallons per axolotl. The more conservative rule that most people cite is a little bit more like a math equation. If you're a math guy, it looks like this: 10n + 10, or ten gallons per axolotl plus an extra 10 gallons. 20 gallons for 1 axolotl, 30 for 2, 40 for 3, and so on. Either rule is safe provided you do regular water changes. Your water will be less prone to fouling up if you stick with the more conservative rule. If you have 3 axolotls in a 36 gallon tank, you will probably be fine as long as you do a weekly water change (10 or 20%) even after it's well-established. You'll get a lot of nitrate building up if you don't since nitrate doesn't go anywhere. Live plants eat up SOME of that nitrate but not all. More axolotls means more water changes. Better safe than sorry for you would be 2 axolotls. Probably totally fine but maybe a little more work would be 3 axolotls.

Couple other things I want to weigh in on. You didn't mention a hang-on-back power filter. Those are ok too, and they're generally pretty cheap. That's what I use and it works fine. You may have to interrupt the outlet flow of water since, as I'm sure you've read, axolotls tend to not like a lot of water flow. So you just block the outlet flow with a sponge (what I use) or a loofah or something. Spray bars work great, but that's something that either comes with it, you buy one, or you're really good at rigging up your own things like MacGyver. haha. The only really important thing to note about hang-on-back power filters, something no one ever told me and I had to figure out later on is that, contrary to what I've done for YEARS with fish tanks, you do not change the filter cartridge. It may start to look gross, and you can rinse it off with tank water, but you can't simply swap it out for a new one or you might crash your nitrogen cycle. Most of the nitrifying bacteria colonize your filter and your filter media. So, it may start to look really gross, but it will still work for mechanical and biological filtration. If you need to change it, like it's so gross it makes you wanna hurl, or it's falling apart, you can gradually change it. Put a new one in WITH the old one for a month or so, THEN take out the old one, or cut a piece off the old one to put with the new one. Something like that.

Last thing (I think): there are other options other than frozen water bottles or tank chillers. Using a screen lid can help quite a bit versus a regular aquarium hood. A screen lid allows for a lot more evaporation to cool the tank. Also, a fan (or two) blowing on the surface of the water can make a surprisingly big difference--a few degrees Fahrenheit at least.

Those are my opinions and pieces of advice. Some of them may be slightly controversial, but collect all the advice and go with what's best for you. The REALLY important things are just to keep the tank clean, keep the water cool, check your parameters to make sure your nitrogen cycle is intact. That's the very basic summary for how to keep an axolotl happy and healthy.

Thanks for answering some of the questions I asked above!!!

In regards to tank size, id definitely be up for some extra work of it means I can get three axolotls in the tank. Can I also "breed" cherry shrimp with the three of them in the tank (for however long they last).

Aa for the filtration, do sponge filters act the same? Changing the filter crashes the cycle?

OH in addition to my questions above, does water level matter if I have juveniles in a 36 gallon tank? I swear I read somewhere to keep the water level only an inch higher than your biggest axie.

Is this true or can I put 11-12" of water in the tank right off the bat. I'd like to get as much done as possible in regards to setup and prep of the tank before getting the axies.

If you replace the sponge, yes, you will crash the cycle, unless enough other surfaces have enough of the right bacteria. The trick is, you use at least 2 sponges, and when you have to start replacing them in a year or 2 or 3, replace one, wait a few months, and replace the next. This also allows you to start up another tank easily ... Just put one of the sponges in a new tank and put 2 new ones in the new and old tank. (Note, whenever you replace or remove a sponge, you should keep a closer eye on the tank parameters to make sure not ammonia/nitrite spike.)

When you move, you can use a small battery-powered air pump to keep water moving through the sponge.

For plants: You can plant them in containers and have them in a bare-bottom tank with the babies. I can't remember if someone mentioned it already, but go for low-light, tough plants.

If you don't have AC, you will need a chiller if your summer temps are getting that high. Ice bottles and fan won't do it. (With A/C at 75 and not-too-humid air, a strong fan will keep the temperature low enough.)

LSuzuki said:

If you replace the sponge, yes, you will crash the cycle, unless enough other surfaces have enough of the right bacteria. The trick is, you use at least 2 sponges, and when you have to start replacing them in a year or 2 or 3, replace one, wait a few months, and replace the next. This also allows you to start up another tank easily ... Just put one of the sponges in a new tank and put 2 new ones in the new and old tank. (Note, whenever you replace or remove a sponge, you should keep a closer eye on the tank parameters to make sure not ammonia/nitrite spike.)

When you move, you can use a small battery-powered air pump to keep water moving through the sponge.

For plants: You can plant them in containers and have them in a bare-bottom tank with the babies. I can't remember if someone mentioned it already, but go for low-light, tough plants.

If you don't have AC, you will need a chiller if your summer temps are getting that high. Ice bottles and fan won't do it. (With A/C at 75 and not-too-humid air, a strong fan will keep the temperature low enough.)

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Thanks for the info! regarding what you said about plants, if I put them in a pot, could I then tie say java moss or another "non-anchored" plant to the pot without risking killing the potted plant? This would be a decent compromise in getting me lots of plants while still having a natural looking tank.

No worries about stress when it comes to no substrate?

If I decide later on could I just put river stones in later, seems a better substrate to add later on then sand would, no need to empty and cycle the tank again.

I think "no substrate" stresses the owners, not the axolotls. When they want to go fast, they swim, and when they are moving along the bottom, they are pretty slow about it.

The problems with axolotls and just about anything on the bottom is that their poop tends to get hidden. And then your water gets polluted. So you need to figure out a compromise that works for you between appearance and ease of cleaning.

For plant options, you probably want to search the plant websites to be sure. NOTE: Axolotls are more sensitive to chemicals in plant fertilizers, etc, so you want to avoid such products. However, axolotls produce a lot of fertilizer themselves, so plants that tolerate the low light and cool temps should do just fine.

faultymechanics said:

OH in addition to my questions above, does water level matter if I have juveniles in a 36 gallon tank? I swear I read somewhere to keep the water level only an inch higher than your biggest axie.

Is this true or can I put 11-12" of water in the tank right off the bat. I'd like to get as much done as possible in regards to setup and prep of the tank before getting the axies.

Click to expand...

Juveniles will be fine in deep water, Plus you'd be better to cycle a full tank rather than a shallow one.

faultymechanics said:

OH in addition to my questions above, does water level matter if I have juveniles in a 36 gallon tank? I swear I read somewhere to keep the water level only an inch higher than your biggest axie.

Click to expand...

Floor area and total water volume are both important. They need room to move around freely, hence plenty of floor space (ideally about a foot in length per axolotl). If water volume didn't matter at all, you could just fill the tank up halfway so they could walk around freely and swim a little bit if they wanted to. However, water volume DOES matter a lot. For axolotls that are big enough to easily swim to the surface for a gulp of air, it's perfectly fine to fill the tank all the way up as long as you have a cover or lid of some kind (they CAN jump out contrary to what some people think). Screen lids are the best for keeping the water cool (evaporation), but regular tank lids, plastic or glass, can work if you can't get a screen lid. Anyway, the more water you have, the less likely it is that the axolotls will foul up their water with their waste. You can clean up the poop, but you can't clean up the pee. haha. Hey produce a lot of waste, and that's where all the ammonia comes from. A fully-established nitrogen cycle will eventually convert it all to nitrate, but that nitrate will build up. If you have a 36 gallon and don't fill it all the way or almost all the way up, then you definitely shouldn't get more than two axolotls. That is only enough tank if you fully utilize it by using the entire volume capacity.

Volume does matter, but the OP said 'level' i.e depth. Depth is not an issue for Axolotls, they originate from lakes and canals that are many feet deep.

But yes, floor space matters for movement, and the total volume of water helps buffer ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. There is indeed no use in only filling a tank half way or less. Yes screen/mesh lids are the best way to allow evaporation and stop your Axolotl leaping from the tank when filled closer to the top of the tank.

Axolotls don't pee

Volume is length x width x height. If the tank is half-full, that's only half the volume you could have. Like you said, more volume dilutes and buffers the three nitrogen compounds. Lower water level --> smaller volume --> more likely for the axolotls to defecate and urinate themselves to death without constant water changes. They have kidneys and ureters. Just because they only have one orifice down there and just because they live in water doesn't mean they don't urinate. I'm pretty sure all vertebrates urinate, including aquatic animals.

Great news! I definitely plan on using all the volume available. I am 100% a DIY kinda guy so I can make my own mesh cover if that is going to help me with cooling. I also plan to make my own chiller/ heater with a peltier and heatsinks (I work in a Maker-Lab).

I just wanted to ensure I wouldn't drown the axolotl. It was hard to imagine them not being able to swim large distances; I swear i read something along the lines of one inch more of water than your largest axolotl. Regardless a lot of what I have read that isn't on this site tends to be flat out wrong. So thanks for helping!

I got curious about axolotls and pee, and found this interesting ... https://www.quora.com/If-amphibian-...ncentrate-urine-why-do-they-produce-it-at-all

There's lots of posts about only having your water as deep as your Axolotl but it's not true.

This post shows a reputable user mentioning they don't pee, but no explanation. It's like Geckos, they don't pee either. Not sure if the scientific reasoning. http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-beginner-newt-salamander-axolotl-help-topics/f48-axolotls-ambystoma-mexicanum/f57-axolotl-general-discussion/55972-what-does-axolotl-urine-pee-look-like.html

DIY mesh cover sounds great!

Axolotls have kidneys and a ureter. Axolotls - Biology While I'e never seen them peeing, it would be surprising if they didn't. But without a bladder, maybe it is a constant trickle and easy to miss. Maybe one of the vets will chime in.

Most likely urates in the waste