Illness/Sickness: Plz help

Ok to start off I have two axolotls, both baught from same guy at a reptile show in march of last year. Originally they lived at my house and i used treated tap water and had no problems they grew from tiny lil babies into decent sized while in my old apt. look at pics to see progress. Now keep in mind i had done all the water testing had a cycle down and as you can see nothing was wrong. Well I moved into my girlfriends townhouse, in a different town and have been here for 6 months now. When all my problems started. My golden had no problems he eats everything and anything i put in his face. But my wild started to eat less and less and pretty soon was dwarfed in size by comparison to my golden. I feed them in separate containers the same amount of food on a every other day basis. I thought maybe the wild was a girl and they might be smaller so I let it go for a month or two. But then Muddy started to develop this film on his back and his feathers started to drop. I think that it was some sort of fungus so i give him a tea bath and the film seams to have gone away so i put him back in with Shower and it comes back. Now keep in mind Shower is huge and has no film on him so I didn't know what to do. I took them both out cleaned the whole tank took out everything and recycled it. Put them back in and no more then a week he had no feathers anymore, he had the film again and was looking emaciated. It was then I realized that the tap water here was horrid as hell, Even after the normal treatment I would do at my old apt the water was super bad so I stopped using it. I went out and started buying aquarium water from the pet store it seams to be working to keep the film off of him and I have been tea bathing him, because it seams without his feathers he is having a hard time breathing. Plz anyone that can help me give me any advice I don't want to loose my waterbaby. I live in fl too so its wicked hot usualy outside I keep my house at 72 that keeps there tank at around 60, but I keep water bottles frozen in there so they fluctuate around 45 to 70. depends on if I work all day or not, to be able to change them out midday. But Whats stumping me is Shower is bigger then ever hes tried to chomp my finger and Muddy has if anything I think shrunk in size and his dorsal fin is also shrinking.




Ok so first pick was them at like 6 months they where both same size still.
Second and third pic are of Muddy, when he first was showing signs of his film and stomach problems.
Fourth and fifth pic are them when i got them in march.
Sixth pic was them at like 3 months.
Seven is Muddy in his dish back when he had feathers still.
Last one is of Shower being all fat and healthy looking for his buddy (who is in a separate tank getting another tea bath)
Any Help is greatly appreciated.

Temperature fluctuations are horrible for axolotls


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First of all, how was your tank cleaned out? Could you post the parameters? Could you provide more detail on what was wrong with the tap water? What is their diet?

Fluctuations in temperature can cause more stress than a constant high temperature. Unless you are able to keep on top of refreshing the frozen bottles consistently so the temperature doesn't fluctuate too much, frozen bottles are not an effective cooling method. You could try facing a fan over the water surface. What lid do you have? A mesh one is best to allow evaporation.

回复: Plz help

I was reading the back of one of the water bills trying to find the number to call a real person. When i noticed a dis clamor stating that they do some sort of process to the water with fluoride and some other chemicals that are ok for human consumption but is harmful to aquarium animals.
Its a mesh top.
I use to just feed them blood worms and the mysis shrimp. When he started not eating I have gotten everything. I have tried brine shrimp, beef heart, carnivore mix (looks like lil fish and blood worms and shrimp all mixed together) I have even started going to the bait store down the street and buying earth worms and cutting them up he seams to like live moving food, but he still barely eats.

And if it was just the temp, wouldn't it effect both not just one?

Water parameters, including temperature, are important to keep as stable as possible. Muddy may be more sensitive to fluctuations than Shower.
As Skudo09 says, please post information on water parameters and how tank was cleaned, as this may have interrupted your nitrogen cycle.

回复: Plz help

ok well i went out and got a test strip kit at the pet store by my house. its showing my nitrates are unsafe, other then that the nitrites safe, chlorine is safe, alkalinity is low/moderate ph is neutral.
I also baught some "prime" concentrated conditioner. so I have added some of that to the main tank, the one shower is currently still in (he is in his feeding dish right now) Muddy is still in his tea bath tank which has flying colors on the test strip look at second pic. So ill let the "prime" circulate threw the tank or is it so high? And I should do a full water change if so?

Well its been like 10 mins or so since i put the prime conditioner in and I did another test and its still high in nitrates.
I don't feed them in there aquarium I feed them in dishes and dump the food they don't eat down the toilet so do I just need to change this water out more often or do I add the treatment to the already pre packaged "aquarium water" the jugs come with a packet "aquabiotic Botanical" but I couldn't find anything about them being ok for waterbabies so i didn't use it should I be using it?

Thanks for getting the strips to test the water, that's very helpful.
I'd suggest doing a 50% water change on your main tank to bring the nitrates down, mixing the prime with the water before adding it to the tank.
Axolotls usually do better in slightly harder water, but I'd say that for now the temperature, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are more important. Is there an ammonia test strip available at the pet store as well? It might be worth checking your ammonia levels as that's the most toxic to your pet.
You were correct not to use the aquabiotic botanical if it doesn't say that it's safe for amphibians, just use the prime.
Keep an eye on the temperature of the water and try not to let it fluctuate. Test ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates after the water change and let us know your results.
I have also included the link to the site where you can find a vet, as it might be worth getting a check up if the film keeps returning and he has lost part of his gills.
Herp Veterinarians

Here is some more information on health, and a list of unsafe and safe treatments.
Axolotls - Health & Diseases

You will need to do water changes to bring nitrate down below 40ppm. Unfortunately test strips are notorious for not being entirely accurate so it is usually advised to opt for liquid testing kits. You will need a test kit for ammonia as well. Are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle? Below is a link and if you are not familiar with the nitrogen cycle it would be very good to read the link as it is important to have a good understanding so you can maintain good water quality.

Caudata Culture Articles - Cycling

Caudata Culture Articles - Water Quality

As Donna suggested, don't use the Aquabiotic botanical. You should be using a dechlorinator for your tap water before adding fresh water to your aquarium.

回复: Plz help

No the pet store down here blows I need to find a real aquarium place. And I am very impatient I already have done a 50% water change. I'm waiting for the water to settle and I'll do another test. But the measurements on the prime aren't very helpful. it says 1 cap full for a 50 gallon tank. well i have a 20 gallon tank and i dont fill it all the way up. Probaly closer to 75% full so if i do a 50% change of a 20g tank thats only 75% filled up how much of the prime should i use? this is like some sort of crazy bad math problem and idk why they cant just be like 1tb per x gallons or like 2 drops per cup or something normal.

回复: Plz help

ok so I used the test strips and did some experiments. I found that the cheap "reptisafe" I had been using on the regular tap water made the best test strip. When I put the aquarium water with the "prime" the nitrates where to high. But I don't know if I should trust these strips, and now I'm worried about Shower in the main tank that has two different conditioners in it... But I don't want to use the tap water again in case is whats causing the film on Muddy. I'm so at my whits end I haven't slept all night I'm so worried.

I'm rly tired and super worried and all this chemical stuff doesn't rly click with me. I'm going to to to the aquarium store I found down the way from my house this morning and get a water test kit like you guys want. Can someone break it down in simple standards for me.
Like: Best ph
Best alkalinity
Best nitrite
Best nitrate

And is it better to let there tank get to the room temp, or keep bottles of ice in there? is the fluctuation of the cold to warm worse then just staying at 70ish?

I also suffer with impatience when it comes to sorting out anything to do with my pets, so I understand where you are coming from. Please try not to panic, you must be exhausted.
I also agree with what you say about the prime, but for now just use approximately 1/5 of a cap for every 10 litres that you put into the tank.
Ammonia should be 0
Nitrite should be 0
Nitrate - with the fishkeeping we go with no more than 20 above the reading of the tap water, which is what I've also been doing with my axolotl tanks.
Optimum temperature is 60-64 F. Above 75F causes a great deal of stress and must be avoided. Perhaps keep water bottles in the refrigerator rather than the freezer, the temperature fluctuations wont be so great then. Change the water bottles frequently.
pH of 6.5 - 8.0 is fine.
I found the following site very useful
Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity

回复: Plz help

thanks so much Donna for your help. I over slept today, kept having horrid nightmares of my water babies dying. I woke up and they both seam to be fine Muddy is alot more active then he has been. Hes swimming all over in his tea bath tank. Still looks rly skinny and his gills aren't looking any better. Shower doesn't seam to be effeted by what I did to the tank last night but. Now I am wondering if I should buy more of the aquarium water or just go back to the tap. Ill spend the money to save my babies, but now after looking at the test strips with a more cool head, i think that the reptisafe with tap water is better even thought I had origonally thought it to be worse. So should I go back or stay on this stuff. And as for the temp, if i just keep the house at 72 there tanks nvr go higher then 70. ill cut down the amount of frozen bottles I put in there tank.

At least you managed to get some sleep, even though you had the nightmares.
Great to hear that both Muddy and Shower are doing well. Don't worry too much about Muddy being thin, he will have plenty of time to fatten up, just offer him small pieces of food that he can eat easily and he will take them when he is hungry. As for his gills, they may regrow or they may not, just keep an eye on them.
As for the water, if you feel that the tap water treated with reptisafe is fine then use it. Its useful to be able to use tap water, especially if you have to do frequent water changes.
If you keep the room temperature at 72F you could always try to keep the tank temperature a little lower than 70F by using a fan to help surface evaporation rates, that usually drops the temperature by a couple of degrees. It may be worth using water bottles from the refrigerator to help cool the tank, rather than the freezer, as this will reduce the size of the temperature fluctuations. That or the fan, see what works for you.
I'm so pleased to hear that your little ones are ok. Please keep me updated. :happy:

回复: Plz help

Ok Donna here we go I went out and spent a lil more money then I should have, but I want them too get better. So I found this nice lil aquarium place, and got a water test kit like u guys wanted and here is a picture. My ph looks to me at like 6.8/6.6. ammonia like .5/1 ppm, nitrite is 0 but my nitrate is 40/80 ppm unless im reading this wrong. So just keep doing like a 50% water change every other day until its settled is what the guy at the store told me. also he informed me to wash there bubble sponge filter thing in dirty fish water. Because I have been just running it under the tap and he said that the tap water kills the beneficial bacteria in the sponge. Which I nvr even thought about. Also he was asking why I didn't have a filter. The Guy I bought them from said they they don't like the sounds a filter makes from the falling water and what not that a bubble sponge thing was all I needed. So Do you guys use a filter? I feel like Beeker or Mr. Wizard over here playing with all these testubes lol I also got there "reverse osmosis" water and some other tests for like hard water and some stuff to make it hard. They like it harder then soft right? Lol That sounds rly dirty when I read it but its a valid question.

回复: Plz help

ok so I just did a 50% change like the dude said with there new water and I did a test. Of just my nitrate level. There is a drastic difference from what it was. Id say that is 10ppm? maybe 20? so thats good right? This just means Shower poops alot and I need to clean it more often with this new water, Right?
And with this last test and the other is it safe for me to put Muddy back in Shower looks so lonely He does rounds looking for his lil friend.

回复: Plz help

And here is another stupid question, how do I make a avatar for this site? lol I'm usually very computer literate but with more then 50% of the page being in Chinese? or w.e that is its hard to navigate. I've added alot of pics of them threw there days feel free to check them out. Also it keeps saying " I don't have a security token" and it wont let me upload more then 1 pic at a time because of that. Do you have to have a higher membership to do such things? lol

Your test results are looking good, the water change has lowered your nitrAtes to a safe level of 10-20ppm.

Your water temperature is on the high side at 21 degrees Celsius, this can cause stress for your Axolotl, promote fungus and disease, and you have no room for error in the event of a heat wave. You ideally want to keep your tanks temperature between 16-18 degrees Celsius. Chillers are the most efficient and consistent way to cool an aquarium, though you can try using fans and a mesh lid to allow evaporation to keep the temperature down, though fans are not always an efficient way of cooling depending on your tanks location/setup.
Caudata Culture Articles - Cooling

Reverse osmosis water is not safe for Axolotls or fish, unless it is chemically altered to create the best environment. The filtering process removes needed minerals, and leaves the water with no carbonate hardness which will also cause PH fluctuations which could affect your ammonia's toxicity.
Caudata Culture Articles - Water Quality

Your sponge filter is okay for your tank, you don't have to use other types of filters, but you do need to maintain your sponge filter with the correct methods. Rinsing your sponge with tap water allows the beneficial bacteria to be killed of by the technically contaminated tap water, using safe tank water from your Axolotls tank will prevent this.
Caudata Culture Articles - Filters

A lot of people are OCD on thinking their Axolotl is being harmed due to using a filter which produces an output of water, all you have to do is reduce the flow so that it doesn't make the water turbulent, its even been shown that some Axolotls will sit in a current of water by choice. I use a submersible filter which produces a flow of water, but I lower the current by turning the output nozzle against the tank wall to reduce the current and choose a setting which creates a steady flow. There are also many DIY fixes to minimize the output of water for various types of filters, I recently setup a new tank, using a small cheap semi submersible filter, the output of water is quite strong, but luckily since the tank I bought is a tartarium(TARTARIUM 80 - Ciano Aquarium) it came with plastic platforms which I utilized to stop the strong flow of the filters output, as you can see in the image below:


I personally prefer a submersible filter for smaller tanks, but as long as you maintain your sponge filter correctly, it is not an issue.

回复: Plz help

hey chirs thanks for helping out. I got the chemicals to make the water harder and stuff too its called "equilibrium" And I got a water hardness test kit aswell. So do they like it hard or softer? And chillers in my area go for around 300 to 500$ I love my babies but I already spent 100$ yesterday on all this stuff and I am hella broke. Next check Ill get a submergable filter. they aren't that bad on my budget but unless I find a used one or something on craigslist I think that buying a chiller is out of the question for now.
Unless anyone is selling one on here that you know about that would be great.

回复: Plz help

ok I found
Chill Solutions CSXC-1 Aquarium Chiller: Aquarium Chillers
Is this going to work for a 20 gallon tank? and if so why is it so cheap when the others range in price from 325 up to 800$? If this will work ill get one of them its just I dont want to waste money on stuff thats not goign to do what I need it to