Axolotls gill filaments have been shrinking, help please!

So I've looked around the forum for posts relating to my issue, but I haven't found any that match exactly. So I made a new thread.

I have 3 axolotls, they are about 8 months old, I got them 5 months ago. They have been very healthy, and in fact, are considered to be on the large side. I noticed my golden albino's gill filaments were getting shorter about a month ago, but he wasn't acting sick. Then I notice my melanoid was having the same issue about 2 weeks ago, finally, about a week ago I saw that my leucistic's began to shrink. I also noticed the albino and leucistic had a reduction in appetite, but it's not consistent, and each changes their mind daily, some days neither will eat, some days one will eat and not the other. The melanoid has had no change in appetite, and still eats nearly every day.
I keep the water between 63°f-66°f, and it has only ever gotten to 67° one time, several months ago, never gotten any higher than that though.
I have high ph in my area because we have very hard water the ph in freshly added water is 8.1, and in the cycled tank it reads 7.9-8.0. I know they prefer hard water, so I do nothing to change the ph.

My ammonia reads .00ppm except during the initial cycling, but that was months ago.

Nitrite is the same, always reads .00ppm except back when first cycling.

Nitrate regularly reads 5ppm, but they have had 2 nitrate spikes(40ppm, neither spiked was for extended times, no more than 1-2 days), one was a couple of months ago, and one was last week while I was out of town. I had someone to care for them, but at the last minute they informed me that they had to care for a relative post-op during the same days I would be gone, so they couldn't stay at my house, only come by once per day instead. If I had the choice I'd have stayed home, but this trip was not optional, unfortunately.

I test my water 3-4 times per week, and do 25% water changes about 2-3 times per week, if I don't, the nitrates climb. I clean their waste every day, I spend close to 2 hours a day caring for them.

I found a vet a couple of weeks ago, and made an appointment for the day after I was to return home, so I took them to the vet 3 days ago.
The vet was an exotic pet vet who had told me they had a couple of clients with axolotls that they treated already. They didn't find anything conclusive, or really have an answer to ease my concerns. They took a sample of the golden albino's filaments and a skin scraping, but found nothing under their microscope. They said perhaps I should try an antibiotic in case it was a bacterial thing. So they gave me flagyl, they did the first injection, and said I'd need to do one every 3 days for the next 9 doses, so 10 total doses. Except the vet injected it into the front arm of the axolotls. I thought injections should be given in the body of an axolotl?

I'm worried that the vet didn't really know enough about axolotls, and am considering going yo another for a second opinion. I've already spent about $200 for the first vet, and don't know if another will be less or more. I hate wasting money on useless information, or worse, information that can actually harm them.

The vet suggested adding products (Am-Quel Plus, Seachem Denitrate) to my tank to reduce the nitrate levels. I am extremely hesitant to add chemicals to my tank, as many can be deadly to axies.

The vet also mentioned the reason for shrinking of their filaments could be hyperoxygenation, due to my frequency of water changes. I know the theory of hyperoxygenation and gill loss is one that has been argued both ways. I haven't found anything conclusive yet, so I am not fully convinced that it actually happens.

I have been keeping them in individual 3 gallon plastic storage tubs since returning from the vet, with 100% water changes daily, and offering a combo of bloodworms, brine shrimp, and salmon pellets every day.

I stopped feeding earth worms when I got home from my trip, because the last 4 containers of worms I purchased looked unhealthy, they're not thick and muscular, but thin and limp looking.

While they're housed in the tubs I've decided to change their substrate from fine aquarium sand, to slate tiles, which I'm attaching and sealing with silicone aquarium sealant. (Thoughts on this route could be helpful too) I'm sure that will help with cleaning, sand is very dirty I've found, and almost impossible to fully clean out.

Sorry this is ridiculously long, I am trying to give all of the information I can think of, to maybe find some help with answers.
So any experts on here that could help with the shrinking gills, or any insight on the theories of the vet?
I've attached some photos of before and after photos I took just tonight.
The pics of the golden were taken right when I first thought his filaments might be shrinking, and you can see that they clearly were, they're almost gone now. He's always had less feathery filaments than the other 2, but they were still a good length.

The leucistic and melanoid have photos showing full feathery filaments, and now shorter, stubby, thinner filaments.

I was really hoping anyone would have an idea for me. The albino wouldn't eat for almost a week, but is now gobbling up food. However, I did the nightly transfer from tub to holding container last night, then when I went to put him back in the tub, I saw all the food he had just gobbled, sitting in his water, he had thrown it all up. Maybe motion sickness from being moved? I'm going to feed him in his holding container tonight, instead of his tub, so I only have to move him once after eating. Hopefully he'll keep it down. Really though I'd appreciate any help from some knowledgeable axie owners out there. I feel like I have been very diligent in my care of them, yet I still didn't manage to prevent something making them sick.....

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Hi Alecann, sorry you haven't received much help. the solution to many problems might just be really clean water? 10% water changes daily for a week? I hope things improve for your little friends.

I had been doing nearly daily water changes 25%, for the last month or so. All of the levels usually read at safe levels, the only one I ever had issue with was nitrate, but only twice. Like I said, I tested my water almost everyday of the week, to make sure nitrate levels stayed 5ppm or lower. That's why I'm so confused, water changes didn't make a difference, the filament loss continued even with trying my hardest to keep ideal water conditions.

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Sorry this has been such a difficult situation for you.

I'd be certain that the reason that your albino was sick was because it ate too much in one go. When they eat a lot very quickly it is common for them to regurgitate. My younger wild type did it a lot when he was younger, so I had to start restrictinghis food so he didn't eat too much.

As for the gill filaments, again something similar has happened with some of my gang. My water parameters are 0, 0, 40 (same as my tap water), and they are all eating and behaving normally. It doesn't seem to bother them, but I did put some airstones into their tanks just in case they were having problems with smaller gill filaments. The air doesn't run all of the time, but was also very handy during the warmer weather to help evaporation.The axis have the same sand substrate, decor and live plants that they have always had. The only difference in their tanks is that I installed some 3D backgrounds. As all my axis are now mature, I have ordered a larger (120g) tank so that all six can go in to the same tank together. That should be arriving within the next month, so I'm hoping that moving them to the new tank will resolve any final issues.

I also have hard water (17 degrees German) and pH of my tap water is 7.4, but has been going up to 8.0 in the tank, so I've been doing water changes to keep it more constant.

I know this doesn't give you any answers, but I hope that you understand that you are not the only person who is slightly confused by what has happened. I was under the impression that I was doing everything that I should for my gang, and can't understand why their gill filaments have shrunk. If it's any consolation, the filaments on my axis are starting to grow very slowly, but this may just be confusing me even more.

I would also be reluctant to be injecting my axis, or adding chemicals to the tank, unless something was actually diagnosed. I have not done anything like give them a salt water bath, or even a tea bath or untreated tap water bath. I have only had my gang since February/March, so not very experienced, but as my guys were eating and behaving normally I decided to just keep going with frequent water tests,water changes, etc. Unless the experienced keeper/breeders suggest a cause and action for the problem, or my axies behaviour changes, I plan to carry on and see what happens when I move my guys to their new tank.

Sorry I can't give you any actual answers, but you are not alone, and please don't panic.

As embarassed and ashamed as I am, I am posting the pictures of Chunky Monkey, my younger wild type, taken this morning. Ben is next to him, but Chunky Monkey has been effected the most.
For comparisson, he is the axie in my profile pic.

Bit of trouble attaching the pics.

I had similar problem happened a while ago after I've changed my feeding from black worms to earth worms. I couldn't grow my own earth worms so ordered worms from online stores, it's not that easy to get reliable clean healthy earth worms, they can come with fungus or other things. After feeding them earth worms for 3 month some of their fluffy long gills curled up and shrieked one of my 3 years old albino daddy stop eating completely I have to hand feeding him pellets. My vet told me to change back food to black worms. Plus adding more good bacteria like aquarium start up , I also added Indian almond leaf extract each water change to keep water clear of other unwanted stuff. And never do complete water change , only just 25% at most each time unless you also use auto water change system. I use drip system but even so correct water change still needed.

As far as the shrieked gills they are slow growing back with some help with aquarium salt and pimafix. I don't know why but my axolotl gills just love the combination of both aquarium salt and pimafix together, their gill just fan out and looks more relax. But I bet some people probably hate the idea so use your judgement cause you're the one that knows your axolotl best, just pay closer attention and keep on trying.

I've been very lucky with earthworms. My local independant aquatics store also sells quite an impressive range of reptiles, amphibians, arachnids, etc. and caters for all with both their live and frozen food sections. I've bought my earthworms from there for months, until a member of staff suggested that the fishing store close by also sold the same worms cheaper. A couple of months ago I bought a wormery kit online, from a company that I know another forum user gets worms from (For all your worm and wormery needs - Bucket of Worms for those in the UK) Luckily they also sell different types of wormery kits - one for general composting, and the other to breed worms for fishing & feeding and for that one they only send earthworms that don't give off the yellow stuff that tastes horrible. I have to wait 3 months for the numbers to build up until I can start harvesting the worms, but it should work out a bit cheaper, as feeding 6 axolotls can involve a lot of worms each week.
I will admit that sometimes being a pet owner means that you find yourself doing some strange things - I recently found myself wondering what was happening to my life as I was grating an apple and some old vegetables from the garden, to be put into the wormery (apparently small pieces of food are easier for them to deal with). :rofl:

Donna001 said:

I will admit that sometimes being a pet owner means that you find yourself doing some strange things - I recently found myself wondering what was happening to my life as I was grating an apple and some old vegetables from the garden, to be put into the wormery (apparently small pieces of food are easier for them to deal with). :rofl:

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:rofl: oh yes!! the idea just get more wacky each days, living in NYC apartment I don't have land space, I only hope that my weird behavior doesn't pose as suspicious character enough to alarm the authority. :wacko:

I just remember something! A while back one buyer of mine email me about some picture with very similar gill's problem , later on found out that was caused by algaefix liquid. I never use it before so I looked it up and was very shocked by the warning label on the back of the package. Mine buyer only bought it by the bottle from fish store without the whole package sealed and they did not printed that on the bottle. Here is what I found.

Precautionary Statement
Hazards to humans & Domestic animals
Caution harmful if swallowed or absorbed through the skin. Avoid contact with skin, eyes, or clothing. Wash throughly with soap and water after handling. NOTE: this product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer.

I mean seriously on the bottle only said Do not use algaefix with freshwater crustaceans, including shrimp, crabs, and lobsters.

tipnatee said:

I just remember something! A while back one buyer of mine email me about some picture with very similar gill's problem , later on found out that was caused by algaefix liquid. I never use it before so I looked it up and was very shocked by the warning label on the back of the package. Mine buyer only bought it by the bottle from fish store without the whole package sealed and they did not printed that on the bottle. Here is what I found.

Precautionary Statement
Hazards to humans & Domestic animals
Caution harmful if swallowed or absorbed through the skin. Avoid contact with skin, eyes, or clothing. Wash throughly with soap and water after handling. NOTE: this product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer.

I mean seriously on the bottle only said Do not use algaefix with freshwater crustaceans, including shrimp, crabs, and lobsters.

Click to expand...

I've never added anything to my tank water, except Prime, to remove the chlorine. I am super scared to use any chemicals because I've read so much regarding axolotls and fish products, and how most aren't safe for them.

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tipnatee said:

I had similar problem happened a while ago after I've changed my feeding from black worms to earth worms. I couldn't grow my own earth worms so ordered worms from online stores, it's not that easy to get reliable clean healthy earth worms, they can come with fungus or other things. After feeding them earth worms for 3 month some of their fluffy long gills curled up and shrieked one of my 3 years old albino daddy stop eating completely I have to hand feeding him pellets. My vet told me to change back food to black worms. Plus adding more good bacteria like aquarium start up , I also added Indian almond leaf extract each water change to keep water clear of other unwanted stuff. And never do complete water change , only just 25% at most each time unless you also use auto water change system. I use drip system but even so correct water change still needed.

As far as the shrieked gills they are slow growing back with some help with aquarium salt and pimafix. I don't know why but my axolotl gills just love the combination of both aquarium salt and pimafix together, their gill just fan out and looks more relax. But I bet some people probably hate the idea so use your judgement cause you're the one that knows your axolotl best, just pay closer attention and keep on trying.

Click to expand...

Ya I've stopped earthworms now, I didn't like the look of them lately, and thought feeding them sick worms was a bad idea. It's pretty hard to find the worms, except from large sprouting goods stores and Walmart. But they are all bait worms, not feeder worms, so their health isn't managed well at all. I've been doing pellets, bloodworms, and brine shrimp since they saw the vet.
I'm hoping I can feed worms one day again, but for now I'd rather just play it safe. I tried keeping worms, but I'm horrible at it, ended up with too wet of soil, and mites. Had to dump the whole colony. I wish there was an easier healthy option for feeding axies.

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Donna001 said:

Bit of trouble attaching the pics.

Click to expand...

What are your water parameters? I see you use sand too, I'm wondering if the sand might be an issue? Just a thought, I'm grasping for anything right now.

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My water is 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 40ppm nitrate, pH around 7.4 from the tap, but goes up to 8.0 in the tank, and the water is hard (around 17 degrees). The aquatic sand is the same sort that they have always had in their tanks. The decor, hides, rocks etc have all moved from tank to tank with them, as have the filters.
The only other thing I can think of it that over the summer months I had a mesh lid on both tanks, and used fans and frozen water bottles to keep the temperature down. Perhaps the evaporation caused a concentration of something that has irritated the gills, that my weekly water changes weren't big enough to deal with.
I am also clutching at straws.

Not all fish product is bad , there are a few exceptional selections. But even so sometime it's the a little wrong dose or small something that's seems harmless over times can still have minor unpleasant effect. My axie don't like prime in my location , so each water change I use dechlorinator filter instead , and small amounts of ammo lock which mostly advertisements for increase ammonia toxin but also works as removing chloramine & chlorine. My axie love it so I am too. :happy:

I try for large gills too and it's definitely an ongoing process. There is a link to my instagram below for some of my efforts. I deal with the same issues on occasion and try to adjust various parameters when I notice receding gill filaments. While the filaments will always return in fullness, the tips of the gill rami will rarely return. An indication of issues with the tips are a white appearance with little blood flow. This may be the case with your leucistic. If no improvement is made, some reabsorption will happen, leaving the tips with a shorter and more blunt appearance.

I would suspect you have a slight issue with water quality, however minor. I removed substrate from all my tanks because the detritus would accumulate and require more substantial cleaning than my bare bottom tanks. I try to do daily water changes on all my tanks and keep a chiller on the tank with my adults. All of the tanks are kept at 65F and I feed pellets without overfeeding.

I've found low dissolved oxygen to be a definite factor for gill filament size and I agree with your vet on this assumption. However, while frequent water changes can introduce more dissolved oxygen, especially with aerators on faucets, I would continue to do them. If you're concerned with higher oxygen levels, then leave the water to sit overnight in a bucket to degass before use.

Water changes are the only way to improve water quality and adding products will just add more variables and headaches. Prime is fine for dechlorination. I'll also note that I don't think high nitrates are to blame because the filaments will typically be damaged on their ends and have a bulbous appearance. I've never seen this substantiated, but there does seem to be correlation between the two from my experience.

here is a picture of a female I had this issue with a few months ago. The filaments have since returned to normal and I'll try to get another picture to show the improvement. https://www.instagram.com/p/BFoz2wPA0OM/
Usually when I notice this happening I'll do a very large water change and clean the inside glass. I try not to meddle too much as it can sometimes do more harm than good.

Thanks for sharing the information. Your picture is amazing, what a lovely looking axolotl. :happy:
I'm having some luck with my gang just with frequent water changes. The older trio in one tank have shown very noticable improvement in gill size. My younger trio in the other tank are starting to show signs of improvement, but the gills on the wildtype are the slowest to show signs of improvement. They all seem to be just as keen on earthworms, and as their behaviour is the same as normal I'm just going to keep going.
It will be interesting to see how things respond when the new tank arrives and they get their new home.